Any Eye Sign Specialists

[king]

Unless a fancier is actually buying a bird on it's eye, judging your own birds on eyesign is a little pointless. If you haven't got the colour eye in your loft you are after, you aren't going to breed it by chance. Eye colour like feather colour is genetic. You can only breed what colour genetics allows. If you have 2 nestmates one you view with a 'good' eye colour and the other without, BOTH birds are still able to produce the same eye colour.
And any fancier racing I would expect to pair his birds on performance and not on their eyes?
And whilst this tread is interesting for views, history has proven that the vast majority of 'eyesign' experts are known for eyesign rather than actual racing.

[Diamond Dave]

Not at all Mil, you can say that of all the "theories" and you probably do, but all of us have our own little fads and fancies which go towards making the sport more enjoyable for the individual.
May not be anything in it but unless you look into it for yourself I dont see how you can dismiss it. Thats just the way I look at it anyway mate - each to thier own.
The reason I want to know about it so that I know what others are looking at when they look at the eye.
I have to agree with King about the colour being genetic but would like to know a bit more about the format and principles of eyesign which could also be genetic and therefore it could confirm or even take the place of a pedigree. It certainly has the potential to be more reliable than a written pedigree in the current light of affairs lol.

[king]

Not at all Mil, you can say that of all the "theories" and you probably do, but all of us have our own little fads and fancies which go towards making the sport more enjoyable for the individual.
May not be anything in it but unless you look into it for yourself I dont see how you can dismiss it. Thats just the way I look at it anyway mate - each to thier own.
The reason I want to know about it so that I know what others are looking at when they look at the eye.
I have to agree with King about the colour being genetic but would like to know a bit more about the format and principles of eyesign which could also be genetic and therefore it could confirm or even take the place of a pedigree. It certainly has the potential to be more reliable than a written pedigree in the current light of affairs lol.

Dave I raced over 50 years. Went to many eyesign evenings. I met several of best known experts. Only one did I find interesting. That was Brian May, he was one of the most knowledgable men I have ever met. He talked of both pigeon eyes & human eyes. He explained what the eye could tell us? Most of what it told us was about health, NOT ability.
The eye will NEVER take the place of a pedigree. A pedigree written by a honest man, will be FACT.
Eyesign will ALWAYS remain theory. Many birds when sold or photographed often have a picture of the eye on the pic or pedigree. If it was so important why doesn't the eye pic come with any explanation?

[Diamond Dave]

Andy, despite some of the other traits that I dont yet understand is a full iris not good for breeding at all or can you put it with an eye which has a sparse iris. ie can you compensate unfavourable traits?

[Diamond Dave]

Dave I raced over 50 years. Went to many eyesign evenings. I met several of best known experts. Only one did I find interesting. That was Brian May, he was one of the most knowledgable men I have ever met. He talked of both pigeon eyes & human eyes. He explained what the eye could tell us? Most of what it told us was about health, NOT ability.
The eye will NEVER take the place of a pedigree. A pedigree written by a honest man, will be FACT.
Eyesign will ALWAYS remain theory. Many birds when sold or photographed often have a picture of the eye on the pic or pedigree. If it was so important why doesn't the eye pic come with any explanation?
[/quote]

King, In the light of the current situation with house of aarden, I would argue that most pedigrees are "enhanced" in one way or another perhaps just with the odd "revelationary superbative words to make it sound that little bit better and then, most of the photos of the birds and their eyes on a pedigree or montages are all photo-shopped to also make it look that little bit better. There is bullshit involved whenever and wherever there are birds for sale.
IMO enhancing any element of a bird for sale is actually dishonest which probably covers about 95% of birds for sale today.

[Diamond Dave]

Can't argue against a record like that Mil.
The fact that you used the word "gardens", can I ask where you are from.?

[Diamond Dave]

OMG and WoW, I didnt realise I was in the presence of pigeon ROYALTY.
Very nice to meet you Mike. I will be hanging on to your evrry post from here on in.

[king]

Dave I raced over 50 years. Went to many eyesign evenings. I met several of best known experts. Only one did I find interesting. That was Brian May, he was one of the most knowledgable men I have ever met. He talked of both pigeon eyes & human eyes. He explained what the eye could tell us? Most of what it told us was about health, NOT ability.
The eye will NEVER take the place of a pedigree. A pedigree written by a honest man, will be FACT.
Eyesign will ALWAYS remain theory. Many birds when sold or photographed often have a picture of the eye on the pic or pedigree. If it was so important why doesn't the eye pic come with any explanation?

King, In the light of the current situation with house of aarden, I would argue that most pedigrees are "enhanced" in one way or another perhaps just with the odd "revelationary superbative words to make it sound that little bit better and then, most of the photos of the birds and their eyes on a pedigree or montages are all photo-shopped to also make it look that little bit better. There is bullshit involved whenever and wherever there are birds for sale.
IMO enhancing any element of a bird for sale is actually dishonest which probably covers about 95% of birds for sale today.
[/quote]

I'm sure your right Dave. There is bullshit involved whenever and wherever there are birds for sale. I did say a pedigree provided by an honest man though. I know many fanciers who are genuine, but most of them would give you a bird rather than sell you it.

[Diamond Dave]

Absolutely right King, I only keep a few and most of them have been gift birds.
I've found it quite easy to recognise the bullshitters simply by what and how the pedigree is written.
The ones that piss me off the most are auctioneers who dont care what they are selling or who they sell to but then if people are so gullible to be taken in by it all, you could say they deserve what they get.

[Diamond Dave]

Sorry Murray, didnt mean to sidetrack your thread, I have been enjoying this topic and will be looking at some of my own birds eyes today.
Hope you're feeling better today Andy.