what do you look for?

[Zwols pigeons]

What do people look for when buying in new pigeons?

myself, i have quite a strict criteria. in no particular order.

Are the pigeons winning at a high level?
can i do what the current owners are doing in terms of time, effort and amount raced?
is there a long line of winners in the family?
are they a true family of pigeons, put together over sometime?
do i like the look, feel of the pigeons?
are they winning for others?
will they complement what i already have?
do i get a good feeling from the seller?

just a few initial points

[Anthony webster]

My self
No1 don't get fooled by birdage numbers
No2 check there location and see if they can win against the wind not when everything suits them
No3 buy a big kit and race the socks of them and keep the best after 3 seasons racing if they are good go back but only buy the same as what worked for you over 3 seasons,

Just like to point out that alot of in fashion names selling for big money now could not win there club last season against wind but when wind turns and birds fly directly over there loft they can win,
But most important to me is winning against the wind
And looking for a flyer who can send a small team and perform at the top regularly.

[Anthony webster]

My self
No1 don't get fooled by birdage numbers
No2 check there location and see if they can win against the wind not when everything suits them
No3 buy a big kit and race the socks of them and keep the best after 3 seasons racing if they are good go back but only buy the same as what worked for you over 3 seasons,

Just like to point out that alot of in fashion names selling for big money now could not win there club last season against wind but when wind turns and birds fly directly over there loft they can win,
But most important to me is winning against the wind
And looking for a flyer who can send a small team and perform at the top regularly.

Some very good points there Anthony. I like your thought on giving them 3 seasons to prove themselves.

I be honest Andy it's 3 seasons of selection so after baby's anything that's there can go forward but as yearlings there selected hard and only the best stay as 2 Yr olds but the 2 n 3yr olds must hit top results regularly because these are looked apone for future breeding,
If lads treat there pigeons like there in army they will progress fast
Baby's are squaddies so u need to weed the weak n igrant ones out,
Yearlings are like paratroopers they must perform
All older birds must be exceptionally good like the sas in my opinion any 2 n 3yr with out loads of top honours should not be in any ones team,,
This is for racing lads there's other flyers who just enjoy the hobby with lots of pleasure.

[diesel]

My opinion is buy a batch to race. When you buy the odd bird you got to be lucky that it’s any good.my best bird came out of batch of 8. It saying that the last batch I brought in and it was years ago when mixed with my own birds all died... propped up birds. Never bought no more in after that. Do your homework who you have them off. ATB for season

[Steve Howells]

Research on the sellers and the birds they have, i bought 5 youngsters in Germany to send to German classic OLR. So i then took a trip to Germany to check the youngsters out. While there i checked the Health of the birds in the loft. Looking at all the droppings around the lofts. Their nutrition and what other things went on in the loft, Medication for birds also what is added to their daily needs. I spent a few days going over different topics on the birds. i must say Christoph and his son Leon have great knowledge of the birds, and the lofts are run by the lads, taking into account its a 365 day sport, and all daily tasks are shared.

When buying birds, do your research and visit the lofts. then you can see what is going on by asking all you need to know. I also bought a nice pair of youngsters that i will put out on loan.

At present just checking out some other youngsters from a loft in Germany. Youngsters from Wolfgandg Roper birds and Leideman.

Wolfgang Roper is a class act. You might have seen it Ronfreid have a three part interview with him on utube.

[Anthony webster]

My self
No1 don't get fooled by birdage numbers
No2 check there location and see if they can win against the wind not when everything suits them
No3 buy a big kit and race the socks of them and keep the best after 3 seasons racing if they are good go back but only buy the same as what worked for you over 3 seasons,

Just like to point out that alot of in fashion names selling for big money now could not win there club last season against wind but when wind turns and birds fly directly over there loft they can win,
But most important to me is winning against the wind
And looking for a flyer who can send a small team and perform at the top regularly.

I do agree completely with the first two points, the 3rd I kind of do but realise that for some fanciers, especially those just starting out and with limited funds, you can't always afford to risk throwing away birds you've just brought, very different if you are trying to improve an existing team !!
The other point I would always question is the amount of firsts that many of these fanciers have, so many are actually the same race but nominated through several different organizations, yes technically it's more than one but in reality, still only one.

I see your point Trevor about money
But over 3 seasons racing paying for poor quality birds to race against good birds that throwing money away as well and allso sole destroying when ya knocking ya plums in and getting know where each weekend,
The birdage thing is a con
But looks great on paper
Like Holland 80 members send 8000 birds
Belgium 80 members send less than 800 birds
Like north east in unc most are 2 n 3 members per team they send 60 to 100 birds most weeks so big birdage
In London most lads have small gardens n small set ups sending between 12 n 24 birds a race so birdage is way lower,
So the birdage thing is a con in my opinion until you study results.

[Anthony webster]

I do agree completely with the first two points, the 3rd I kind of do but realise that for some fanciers, especially those just starting out and with limited funds, you can't always afford to risk throwing away birds you've just brought, very different if you are trying to improve an existing team !!
The other point I would always question is the amount of firsts that many of these fanciers have, so many are actually the same race but nominated through several different organizations, yes technically it's more than one but in reality, still only one.

I see your point Trevor about money
But over 3 seasons racing paying for poor quality birds to race against good birds that throwing money away as well and allso sole destroying when ya knocking ya plums in and getting know where each weekend,
The birdage thing is a con
But looks great on paper
Like Holland 80 members send 8000 birds
Belgium 80 members send less than 800 birds
Like north east in unc most are 2 n 3 members per team they send 60 to 100 birds most weeks so big birdage
In London most lads have small gardens n small set ups sending between 12 n 24 birds a race so birdage is way lower,
So the birdage thing is a con in my opinion until you study results.

Yes I definitely agree with that mate, it can be a false economy and very frustrating seeing hard earned cash go down the pan week after week, I guess it's all a balancing act between what we want to achieve and how much we can justify spending to achieve it.
As you say also, the numbers game is a complete con, the other thing is how many birds are some of these top fliers actually breeding and losing each year to get the few that win the big prizes.
One of the big fliers down here, for whom pigeons are also a buisness will send in various clubs each week, often in the same race. There is no arguing that he does have some outstanding pigeons from some of the top lofts in Europe, not only does his team score regularly for him but many of our club and federation members are also winning with his birds. However unless you are prepared to pay serious money you aren't getting direct youngsters from his stock birds or best racers.
The other thing with him and many other top fliers, and I'm not knocking them for this as winning is their only goal, but they are only sending to races which they are likely to win, if the conditions are against them then they aren't sending.
The sad thing with that attitude though is that if we all took that stance then club and federation racing would almost certainly be finished and this would become a sport just for the elite.

Yes Trevor agree pal think most lads might charge a novice a tiny bit to start with but after that there friendship is good and the good flyer helps and gifts the novice pigeons
In 2009, 10 I was winning nice few races but I couldn't win the fast races so in 2011 I see a advert in bhw Arthur farra in Wolverhampton had late breds for sale £50 each of racers or £100 each off Wolverhampton fed winners I had the old lambrechts and Arthur was racing the de Meyer pigeons I new lambrecht n de Meyer swapped birds so I bought 6 baby's of Arthur fed winners crossed them with mine n they was great birds one hen being champion yb of fed 9 races 7 times in top of fed result n topped it once, but after them 6 baby's me n Arthur became friends he helped me I helped him were still good mates now but ever since then Arthur as never asked for 1 penny of me for birds,
Difference with genuine lads they want to help novices but pigeon dealers just want there money n jog them on n that's sad.

[Anthony webster]

Yes I definitely agree with that mate, it can be a false economy and very frustrating seeing hard earned cash go down the pan week after week, I guess it's all a balancing act between what we want to achieve and how much we can justify spending to achieve it.
As you say also, the numbers game is a complete con, the other thing is how many birds are some of these top fliers actually breeding and losing each year to get the few that win the big prizes.
One of the big fliers down here, for whom pigeons are also a buisness will send in various clubs each week, often in the same race. There is no arguing that he does have some outstanding pigeons from some of the top lofts in Europe, not only does his team score regularly for him but many of our club and federation members are also winning with his birds. However unless you are prepared to pay serious money you aren't getting direct youngsters from his stock birds or best racers.
The other thing with him and many other top fliers, and I'm not knocking them for this as winning is their only goal, but they are only sending to races which they are likely to win, if the conditions are against them then they aren't sending.
The sad thing with that attitude though is that if we all took that stance then club and federation racing would almost certainly be finished and this would become a sport just for the elite.

Yes Trevor agree pal think most lads might charge a novice a tiny bit to start with but after that there friendship is good and the good flyer helps and gifts the novice pigeons
In 2009, 10 I was winning nice few races but I couldn't win the fast races so in 2011 I see a advert in bhw Arthur farra in Wolverhampton had late breds for sale £50 each of racers or £100 each off Wolverhampton fed winners I had the old lambrechts and Arthur was racing the de Meyer pigeons I new lambrecht n de Meyer swapped birds so I bought 6 baby's of Arthur fed winners crossed them with mine n they was great birds one hen being champion yb of fed 9 races 7 times in top of fed result n topped it once, but after them 6 baby's me n Arthur became friends he helped me I helped him were still good mates now but ever since then Arthur as never asked for 1 penny of me for birds,
Difference with genuine lads they want to help novices but pigeon dealers just want there money n jog them on n that's sad.

That is very true Tony, most fanciers are still very honest and genuine people, Jed Jackson's wife said to me a few years ago, that before his death, he told her if she ever needed anything just to ask a pigeon man, she lived by this until her passing a couple of years ago and was never disappointed.
Andy and I got into pigeons through our Dad and were lucky enough to have grown up amongst some very good pigeon fanciers in what was then a 40+ member, very strong, Worthing and District HS, so a lot of our original birds and the advice we still go by today was given to us by them. Even today, having been keeping pigeons most of my life I'm still being helped along by some excellent pigeon fanciers. As you can gather I'm primarily a distance flier, Ive already been gifted birds by Dave Bridger, and as I am in need of a bit of speed in my loft this year one of our top fliers, Alan Still, has gifted me 4 cock birds, one is a stock bird he purchased from Darren May, the other three are same way bred birds, "Pit Bulls" from his Federation winning widowhood team. I know these are now surplus to his requirements as he needed to make space but they still overshadow any sprint pigeon I have !!

My friend Stacy Simmons raced down by you he's cousins and uncles n grandad still race down where you are there last names are gunn.

[king]

Pigeon men have a funny way of "adapting" (for want of a better word)

We have far fewer members now than say in the 1980's but far more Clubs!

It'd be fascinating to wind the clock forward 50 years and see what the sport looks like then

I can remember what the sport looked like 50 years ago (well 49 years ago)
My club had near on 60 members. Fanciers never used vets. Only treated for basics worms/canker/coxi. Many kept NO stock birds. The one big stud was Louella. My club had no mob flyers 25/30 was a big sender) The birds went EVERY Friday regardless of the forecast. If they were held over so be it. Weather was not feared by fanciers, if it was overcast and dry they were up, if it was dry at race point but rain on route or home end they were up. The vels were on average much slower, but the races were still very competitive. When the weather was good they could still fly up to 2000ypm. Fanciers didn't fill the clock most clocked there first bird or a 2nd if close or pool birds. Most clocks came in with less than a handful clocked in. Yes we had the odd bad race or disaster but most birds returned. Expensive birds & paper pedigree birds were of no interest to anybody.
Friday night marking was a social event, the club was FULL 30+ members sat drinking till closing. Sat not so many as many fancier took their wife's out
As far as pigeon racing go's they were the good old days.

[Anthony webster]

That is very true Tony, most fanciers are still very honest and genuine people, Jed Jackson's wife said to me a few years ago, that before his death, he told her if she ever needed anything just to ask a pigeon man, she lived by this until her passing a couple of years ago and was never disappointed.
Andy and I got into pigeons through our Dad and were lucky enough to have grown up amongst some very good pigeon fanciers in what was then a 40+ member, very strong, Worthing and District HS, so a lot of our original birds and the advice we still go by today was given to us by them. Even today, having been keeping pigeons most of my life I'm still being helped along by some excellent pigeon fanciers. As you can gather I'm primarily a distance flier, Ive already been gifted birds by Dave Bridger, and as I am in need of a bit of speed in my loft this year one of our top fliers, Alan Still, has gifted me 4 cock birds, one is a stock bird he purchased from Darren May, the other three are same way bred birds, "Pit Bulls" from his Federation winning widowhood team. I know these are now surplus to his requirements as he needed to make space but they still overshadow any sprint pigeon I have !!

My friend Stacy Simmons raced down by you he's cousins and uncles n grandad still race down where you are there last names are gunn.

Yes I know of the Gunns and do remember the name Simmons !!
The Gunn's have belonged and raced with Brighton for many years, I remember the name from the Old Portsmouth North Road Federation days. I think they race in both the Southcoast Federation and the Sussex North Road Federation, they also compete in Classics, there are several of racing as individuals or in partnerships. They often appear in the Federation and classic results, Lance Gunn often tops our Fed and does very well in the Classics, he won the BICC young bird National from Guernsey in 2022.
https://www.pipa.be/en/articles/report- ... ember-2022

Ya I know lance really well, he races well and is really dedicated flyer he races with he's dad Graham now, then he's brother Aaron races plus he's uncle Tracy n he's grandad race as partners and my best pal stacy there cousin moved away to scunthorpe 3 years ago and races there now,
Very small world the pigeon game.