Speed vs endurance

[Murray]

The other recent thread discusses long distance racing and how to develop pigeons for it.
Very interesting.
However I have always felt that speed is far more important than endurance.
As a jockey, I can assure you, riding something that can run close to the speed then punch away at the finish to win a six furlong race is a much more rewarding experience than being astride a slow thing that gets back in a big field of stayers, then plods forward to be beaten in an honest attempt.
It's the same with the pigeons. I want things that can be on the sheet at the sprint distance, even if they have some pigeons which flew well over longer distances in their family.
Many years ago in New Zealand there was a very good open class sprinter called Sony. Very fast horse. Then he got a bit old for that caper.
I was at high school when I saw that same horse win a Grand National Steeplechase, under a big weight, over 4 and a half miles.
Even in the mud, over fences, he was too fast for them.
Endurance is never a good enough substitute for speed.

[Andy]

A good post Murray. It does depend on the race conditions though. You wouldn’t expect a horse that runs well on good to firm ground to do much on heavy ground. A speed pigeon wouldn’t have stood a chance from Lerwick this weekend. With only 30 pigeons recorded from 1079 by the end of the second day endurance is what is required. The race continues tomorrow so it has to be birds with exceptional endurance that will return. The speed ones were finished long ago. If it had been a race like last years where there were many birds on the day and the winners doing over 1500 ypm then yes the speed pigeons will win. This year the 30 pigeons timed have recorded velocities of between 725 ypm & 408 ypm, so very hard.

[killer]

What a Horse Murray ,can’t see it going on much passed the Nat ,

[killer]

Must agree Andy ,the ones that get home need that extra ,so why are they losing birds ,is it the birds ,is it the weather men getting it wrong ,something is not adding up ,

[Murray]

You explained it yourself, Killer. The pigeons are not good enough. People are breeding off stock that years ago the wouldn't have.

Old Ad Shaerlaekens summed it up. The cause of the massive increase in losses is the price of feed. It is too cheap. Back in the 40's and 50's and 60's, wages were lower and it was harder to pay for feed. So pigeons that had done nothing tended to be removed. Now, if they are pure Van Den Zonkers or something, they are sold to some mug who is excited by pedigrees. They then breed a big team of pigeons that promptly get lost.
I am as guilty as anyone of keeping pigeons that are simply old favorites.

As Killer says, you have to breed from the good ones only.

[killer]

I’m not saying the birds are bad ,but too many Sprint & middle distance birds have been put into them, plus they are not testing there babies ,most clubs they are lucky to get to 180 miles ,so too many bad birds are carried through ,to breed off of ,

[Murray]

True.

[Murray]

And in another example of speed and class being the prerequisite of a top class athlete, the legendary Red Rum, who won three Grand Nationals, was bought as a yearling with the aim of winning the first two year old race of the year, over 5 furlongs. He suceeded.
That rapid turn of foot allowed him to gather in a 30 length lead by Crisp and catch him at the line.
Slow ones will go the distance, but fast ones win.

[Andy]

I think the missing ones from Lerwick are a combination of things. Lerwick is up in the Shetland Islands and 135 miles North of the Scottish mainland. They have to cross almost this distance of North Sea before making land. That’s if they take an indirect route home. A more direct route would actually be to come much further down the East coast over the Atlantic. Possibly as much as 300 miles. The wind was a strong SSE headwind. The birds would have been flying low over the sea and with the wind whipping up the spray who knows what happened to a lot of them. Also I agree with Killer that the modern day pigeons aren’t up to this type of race. They are more sprint/middle distance birds. Alright for up to 350 miles but not able to fly for 15+ hours on the day and get up and go again the next.

[Andy]

And in another example of speed and class being the prerequisite of a top class athlete, the legendary Red Rum, who won three Grand Nationals, was bought as a yearling with the aim of winning the first two year old race of the year, over 5 furlongs. He suceeded.
That rapid turn of foot allowed him to gather in a 30 length lead by Crisp and catch him at the line.
Slow ones will go the distance, but fast ones win.

But Hussain Bolt wouldn’t stand a chance in a 5,000 metre race or a 1,500 metre runner winning a marathon. Red Rum was a class horse. I saw him once at the South of England show. He came into the main ring with a couple of police horses either side. He was very small in comparison.