Amino acids.

[king]

I've never ever given my birds in 50+ years Amino acids supplements. Just another way for a fancier to waste their money.

[king]

How important is it for our youngsters to go forward in life, development matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sv9Q84x0Qo

I gave my children the best start in life possible

I adopt same principle with my pigeons

So you give your children Amino acid supplements Mike? Even though they are not recommended for kids?

[king]

I wouldn't knock something until I'd tried something that's my point

You can't speak of any plus/negative aspects of it without having used it

That's a valid point Mike. But how do fanciers evaluate products? A fancier who rears fantastic looking YBs without using a product can't rear better? A fancier winning without using products again can't do better? The only true test to evaluate is, if you are beaten by a fancier who doesn't use a perticular product, then he has better birds and your product is doing nothing and costing you money.
I like many 1000's of fanciers have tried products over the years. A new product sells well as fanciers try it, but many see no difference and stop using it. Then when sales drop of the product it's relaunched as 'better' or improved'
I've read 100's of write ups of winning fanciers and they often say what products they use, there's yet to be one product that stands out as a game changer? The thing that does stand out is the either have good birds or are good fanciers. In many cases they are both.

[Anthony webster]

Different thing all together lads but iv tried many products
But going bk through diary's Dr brocamp products must do something because I used em on 20 races won 16 races then stopped n used again few yrs later 2 races 2 wins then again 9 races 7 wins
So iv tried tollisan n other brands but Dr brocamp must do something for sure.

[king]

I do think that the only true way to see if any of these products give any benefit would be to test them within your own loft. Using them on half your team and not on the other. They would then have exactly the same conditions on race day.

The only problem with this is which half do you give the products too? ALL your birds would have to be of equal quality? And every loft I ever visited has some birds better than others.

[king]

There are lots of supplements so what works or what doesn’t is hard to judge
Maybe they all benefit different fanciers birds and are part of the individual lofts routine that makes them successful and if they used different supplement's they may not be as successful but they may work in another loft under different management or conditions
My pigeons had a hard race yesterday 1200 ypm I used two products in the water for return . I used another on the corn . Tonight I gave them the same on the corn and one I buy from a health shop with it
I think my pigeons have recovered well and after a day off I hope to see them flying well tomorrow night
Would they recover the same ? I dont know but they look ok tonight

Well done on your recent win Neil. Can I asked why you thought 1200 was a hard race? Back in the 80s many races were 900-1200 and we never ever classed a 1200 race as hard? Even 900 -1000 many just called them slow as returns were often very good.

[Anthony webster]

There are lots of supplements so what works or what doesn’t is hard to judge
Maybe they all benefit different fanciers birds and are part of the individual lofts routine that makes them successful and if they used different supplement's they may not be as successful but they may work in another loft under different management or conditions
My pigeons had a hard race yesterday 1200 ypm I used two products in the water for return . I used another on the corn . Tonight I gave them the same on the corn and one I buy from a health shop with it
I think my pigeons have recovered well and after a day off I hope to see them flying well tomorrow night
Would they recover the same ? I dont know but they look ok tonight

Well done on your recent win Neil. Can I asked why you thought 1200 was a hard race? Back in the 80s many races were 900-1200 and we never ever classed a 1200 race as hard? Even 900 -1000 many just called them slow as returns were often very good.

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

My dad Neil I can't talk pigeons two he goes on n on about the old kirk Patrick's Marsden flints krauths n all them old strains - they was good 40,50 year ago but I see my dad put same effort as me in and win very little done OK on a tough channel race,
He says I'm two strict n should chill out but ya either a winner or ya making numbers on,
Unless it's really tough I pull ets out with in 1 min of first bird I'm not interested in birds fly further than 1 mile behind the leaders,, so when lads are beat by 3 n 4 mins there birds are 3 to 4 miles slower u keep these pigeons 3 yrs n breed of em you have a team of slow racers mainly homers, who's kidding who.
Fanicers are very soft with there birds now one thing in belg because they put lots of money on there birds the homers are straght in deep freeze because iv not met a Belgium flyer who don't eat pigeon they love em.

[king]

There are lots of supplements so what works or what doesn’t is hard to judge
Maybe they all benefit different fanciers birds and are part of the individual lofts routine that makes them successful and if they used different supplement's they may not be as successful but they may work in another loft under different management or conditions
My pigeons had a hard race yesterday 1200 ypm I used two products in the water for return . I used another on the corn . Tonight I gave them the same on the corn and one I buy from a health shop with it
I think my pigeons have recovered well and after a day off I hope to see them flying well tomorrow night
Would they recover the same ? I dont know but they look ok tonight

Well done on your recent win Neil. Can I asked why you thought 1200 was a hard race? Back in the 80s many races were 900-1200 and we never ever classed a 1200 race as hard? Even 900 -1000 many just called them slow as returns were often very good.

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

When we raced in the 70s & 80s we didn't want 900ypm either. The average in a season was 1300. We could have a 1700 race one week and 1000 the following week. Your right that a lot has changed since those days, but one thing has not. There were still good birds back then. The vast majority were not homers. My best pigeon from the 80s a blue w/f hen had prize cards from 900 to 1760. As a yearling she flew the channel 3 times 1400, 900 and the last time she wasn't clocked but was on the day 14hrs+. I had another hen who was 2nd club on 900 in a snow blizzard she had cards in fast races too.
I only asked you the question because you called the race hard? I used to see posts on pigeon chat that called races 'smashes' when the velocity dropped below 1000. One thing I've learnt in 50 years is 'good' pigeons win races of all velocities. Homers often only win total disasters. A slow race is not always bad, hard or a smash.

[king]

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

When we raced in the 70s & 80s we didn't want 900ypm either. The average in a season was 1300. We could have a 1700 race one week and 1000 the following week. Your right that a lot has changed since those days, but one thing has not. There were still good birds back then. The vast majority were not homers. My best pigeon from the 80s a blue w/f hen had prize cards from 900 to 1760. As a yearling she flew the channel 3 times 1400, 900 and the last time she wasn't clocked but was on the day 14hrs+. I had another hen who was 2nd club on 900 in a snow blizzard she had cards in fast races too.
I only asked you the question because you called the race hard? I used to see posts on pigeon chat that called races 'smashes' when the velocity dropped below 1000. One thing I've learnt in 50 years is 'good' pigeons win races of all velocities. Homers often only win total disasters. A slow race is not always bad, hard or a smash.

Make easy for you king
Your birds in the 80’s are better than any other pigeons I have ever heard about and mine are total crap paper bags that could never win in your era of dominance
will that do for you ? Now I don’t have to keep reading how modern birds are crap

I must add congratulations on your 2nd club in the snow I could only dream of that performance or a hen flying a very very long way 3 times

Been nice if you had used the congratulations topic that you read to post your congratulations on rather than another topic with yet another motive behind it

Neil. Your missing the point I was trying to make. I had no motive behind my post. You should know that from pigeon chat. I only ask questions. Had you not used the word 'hard' in the post I would never had even asked the question, even you said it was the wrong word to use. I used the 2 birds of mine to show that winning birds don't become homers even when the races are slow. The hen that flew the channel 3 times as a yearling, never flew it again, she did win 17 cards from just 34 races though. The slow hen in the snow went on to win around 12 cards. Both were used as examples of birds that did not become homers despite racing on slow days. As for the congratulations on winning, I never did it on chat unless I actually knew the fancier in question. I congratulated you on the this tread because my question related to the race you had just won. It was as simple as that.
My birds in the 80s were no better than many in the 80s but they were as good as some when it mattered. And I still believe the best birds back in the 80s were just as good as those racing today. No pigeon will ever fly faster than the weather on the day allows, be it 900, 1200 or 2000. Enjoy your racing.

[Anthony webster]

I did say people keep homers that I do know to be true
they turn in 15 min after the winners and keep there perch there not racers

That is the truth, Neil.
Pigeons that reliably arrive 100 yards a minute after the winner, they are just homing. Or no good.
As an old jockey I am certain that any team of young birds can be taught to fly with a bit of urgency, or as we call it, race. It's like training racehorses. By training them upsides a horse with a bit of natural speed they learn to extend themselves.
The young pigeons may not be bred from the latest fastest bloodlines, but you can still instill the drive to break quickly from the release and head for home in the front bunch, as best they can.

I'm same Murray been fetched up my whole life around horses n running dogs my grandad all ways said it cist the same to feed a good un as it does a bad un, it's so true,
But thets talk straight how many lads fill there team with direct children of winners
Most have 40 baby's 25 will be bred of homers 10 or more of new stock with nice pedigree the winner 3,4 generations back in pedigree and may be 2 or 4 baby's bred of tidy birds
What chance do they have they do this Yr in Yr out,
If they nutted the rubbish off Sunday after last ob race OK they might look in loft n it looks empty but there on the right path to start doing better.