Just a question

[Devo1956]

I keep reading good pigeons, will tell you how good they are by the basket. So over the past couple of years, with all the losses of birds. And some really good birds being lost. Some lofts getting really bad returns, is this still going to be the case. The basket tells you? It will tell you the winner of the race, but was it your lofts best birds.?

[king]

I keep reading good pigeons, will tell you how good they are by the basket. So over the past couple of years, with all the losses of birds. And some really good birds being lost. Some lofts getting really bad returns, is this still going to be the case. The basket tells you? It will tell you the winner of the race, but was it your lofts best birds.?

They say a lofts only as good as it's last race. If you send your best bird enough times the chances are one day may not return. I'll bet I'm not the only fancier to lose their best racing bird from a race, I've done it more than once. I myself only keeping a very small team found it hard to replace a decent racer, but a Top loft should really not have that problem. Top fanciers are not relying on just one pigeon they'll have a team of several good birds.
It will be harder to replace a good distance bird though, as these can take a couple of years longer than a sprint bird to find.

[Devo1956]

I keep reading good pigeons, will tell you how good they are by the basket. So over the past couple of years, with all the losses of birds. And some really good birds being lost. Some lofts getting really bad returns, is this still going to be the case. The basket tells you? It will tell you the winner of the race, but was it your lofts best birds.?

They say a lofts only as good as it's last race. If you send your best bird enough times the chances are one day may not return. I'll bet I'm not the only fancier to lose their best racing bird from a race, I've done it more than once. I myself only keeping a very small team found it hard to replace a decent racer, but a Top loft should really not have that problem. Top fanciers are not relying on just one pigeon they'll have a team of several good birds.
It will be harder to replace a good distance bird though, as these can take a couple of years longer than a sprint bird to find.

Yes King I would agree with you on the distance birds, but with the numbers getting reported of losses, How many noms in the clubs, made it home or down the pack. Next year another decline of birds. so time will tell.

[Murray]

I'm still of the view that good pigeons, healthy and fit, are hard to lose.
When you see some blokes with most of their pigeons gone after a dozen tosses and one race, and others racing the whole program out to 500 miles and still having three quarters of what they started with, it makes you pay attention.
And when you see the same fliers with the same sort of outcomes season after season, a pattern starts to emerge.

The fellows with pigeons that are in super health and have been well trained and raced regularly seem to get them home, while the pigeons that are being medicated to try to buck them up and are sent under trained because they keep getting lost if they are tossed, well they are a prime candidate to fail.

An example.
The other week we won a nice race. The winner, 153, is pretty much Heremans and Van Den Bulck. Sprint bred. Terry sent it 4 weeks in a row to 200 then 250 then 300 miles, then back to 250, or 260 actually, to win the breeder's plate race. He was very optimistic. The 4 birds that he sent just kept getting fitter and healthier week by week.
Of course accidents happen, you can lose the best ones to hawks and things, but on a good day from 200 or 300 miles you should not lose good fit pigeons,

I've seen blokes lose 100 pigeons in a single training toss. You can't believe that all of them were no good. I can believe that they are or have been sick.
There are lofts where the pigeons can only stay functionally well for some weeks without some form of medication, so weak has their immunity become. And they breed from them. So they have 100 or 200 youngsters that can only be kept healthy with medications. When an illness gets into them they drop like flies.

There is an analogy that I like. A racehorse trainer was asked why so many young horses were being injured. All he said was, "Harder tracks and softer horses".
There's a similar thing happening to the pigeons.

[Devo1956]

If we were looking at a decline of 7%, along with all the loss of birds from this season. The sport will need to look at the future of racing, the cost of running a loft will not change, infact it may cost more by the time you work out. Racing, breeding, food and training. Now that is before racing starts. Will keepers reduce the amount of birds they keep?

[king]

If we were looking at a decline of 7%, along with all the loss of birds from this season. The sport will need to look at the future of racing, the cost of running a loft will not change, infact it may cost more by the time you work out. Racing, breeding, food and training. Now that is before racing starts. Will keepers reduce the amount of birds they keep?

Where does the number 7% come from? The less birds a fancier keeps drops the running costs, in food, supplements, ect. Even the cost of racing drops. There'll always be fix costs, training, subs ect. But it should save the fancier money racing fewer birds (fuel costs excluded). In fact the losses may actually reduce, especially when training as fewer birds attract few BOP strikes.

[Devo1956]

If we were looking at a decline of 7%, along with all the loss of birds from this season. The sport will need to look at the future of racing, the cost of running a loft will not change, infact it may cost more by the time you work out. Racing, breeding, food and training. Now that is before racing starts. Will keepers reduce the amount of birds they keep?

Where does the number 7% come from? The less birds a fancier keeps drops the running costs, in food, supplements, ect. Even the cost of racing drops. There'll always be fix costs, training, subs ect. But it should save the fancier money racing fewer birds (fuel costs excluded). In fact the losses may actually reduce, especially when training as fewer birds attract few BOP strikes.

The 7% comes from the decline in membership, not only in the UK. People getting old and not being replaced by the young. People not being able to carry on racing because of health. Also some people can not afford to keep birds anymore.

[Murray]

If we were looking at a decline of 7%, along with all the loss of birds from this season. The sport will need to look at the future of racing, the cost of running a loft will not change, infact it may cost more by the time you work out. Racing, breeding, food and training. Now that is before racing starts. Will keepers reduce the amount of birds they keep?

Where does the number 7% come from? The less birds a fancier keeps drops the running costs, in food, supplements, ect. Even the cost of racing drops. There'll always be fix costs, training, subs ect. But it should save the fancier money racing fewer birds (fuel costs excluded). In fact the losses may actually reduce, especially when training as fewer birds attract few BOP strikes.

I agree, fewer birds means a smaller feed bill. Simple. And how often do you see a fancier doing very well for a couple of seasons then gets a bigger loft and a lot more pigeons and never has the same success again. Or the opposite, where circumstances cause someone to drastically reduce their team and they go better than they ever have?
Fewer birds can sometimes be a very good thing.

[Diamond Dave]

I'm still of the view that good pigeons, healthy and fit, are hard to lose.
When you see some blokes with most of their pigeons gone after a dozen tosses and one race, and others racing the whole program out to 500 miles and still having three quarters of what they started with, it makes you pay attention.
And when you see the same fliers with the same sort of outcomes season after season, a pattern starts to emerge.

The fellows with pigeons that are in super health and have been well trained and raced regularly seem to get them home, while the pigeons that are being medicated to try to buck them up and are sent under trained because they keep getting lost if they are tossed, well they are a prime candidate to fail.

An example.
The other week we won a nice race. The winner, 153, is pretty much Heremans and Van Den Bulck. Sprint bred. Terry sent it 4 weeks in a row to 200 then 250 then 300 miles, then back to 250, or 260 actually, to win the breeder's plate race. He was very optimistic. The 4 birds that he sent just kept getting fitter and healthier week by week.
Of course accidents happen, you can lose the best ones to hawks and things, but on a good day from 200 or 300 miles you should not lose good fit pigeons,

I've seen blokes lose 100 pigeons in a single training toss. You can't believe that all of them were no good. I can believe that they are or have been sick.
There are lofts where the pigeons can only stay functionally well for some weeks without some form of medication, so weak has their immunity become. And they breed from them. So they have 100 or 200 youngsters that can only be kept healthy with medications. When an illness gets into them they drop like flies.

There is an analogy that I like. A racehorse trainer was asked why so many young horses were being injured. All he said was, "Harder tracks and softer horses".
There's a similar thing happening to the pigeons.

Murray - gotta say that this post is sooo well written mate and oh so true, I have screen-shotted it and will keep it for reference.
It's everything I believe in but when I try to talk about it, it never comes out like that.
I think English was another lesson I might have missed at school.
Brilliant mate.

[Murray]

You flatter me, Dave.

But yes, in the many years I've been in the sport I've seen and met some great people and even greater flyers. Blokes who when they tell you something you had better remember it.
For every one of those I have met fellows who when they say something, you stand there with your mouth open because your brain refuses to even process it.
The best and the worst, you learn something from all of them, if you are smart enough.