A small video for some members, what are your thoughts?
Breeding barless pigeons
This guy is in for a lot of disappointment. He will succeed with the blues, but he ain't going to with the colours like Black, Grizzle ect. Barless is a wing pattern as he rightly said, but so is spread. So a black cannot show TWO patterns? He will produce a black that carries the barless gene, but the black cannot itself express the barless colour itself.
A pigeon can genetically have both the barless pattern and the spread gene at the same time, but it will not "show" both visually. Genetically, a solid black pigeon is created when a bird with a blue base color carries the dominant spread gene. Because the spread gene acts like a solid coat of paint that evenly distributes dark pigment across the entire body, it completely masks the underlying wing pattern which in this case could be barless.
A pigeon can genetically have both the barless pattern and the spread gene at the same time, but it will not "show" both visually. Genetically, a solid black pigeon is created when a bird with a blue base color carries the dominant spread gene. Because the spread gene acts like a solid coat of paint that evenly distributes dark pigment across the entire body, it completely masks the underlying wing pattern which in this case could be barless.
Yes King, there are a few vidoes on barless birds. Some talk about the yellows, i have only see the blues myself.king wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 1:32 pm This guy is in for a lot of disappointment. He will succeed with the blues, but he ain't going to with the colours like Black, Grizzle ect. Barless is a wing pattern as he rightly said, but so is spread. So a black cannot show TWO patterns? He will produce a black that carries the barless gene, but the black cannot itself express the barless colour itself.
A pigeon can genetically have both the barless pattern and the spread gene at the same time, but it will not "show" both visually. Genetically, a solid black pigeon is created when a bird with a blue base color carries the dominant spread gene. Because the spread gene acts like a solid coat of paint that evenly distributes dark pigment across the entire body, it completely masks the underlying wing pattern which in this case could be barless.
It's interesting, genetics, and some blokes put a lot of effort into breeding for a certain colour trait.
I'm not so bothered, I'm looking for good racing pigeons with speed and stamina.
King would know, is breeding to make say a homogenous barless blue going to possibly negatively affect other desirable traits such as hardiness, fertility, etc?
I'm not so bothered, I'm looking for good racing pigeons with speed and stamina.
King would know, is breeding to make say a homogenous barless blue going to possibly negatively affect other desirable traits such as hardiness, fertility, etc?
Murray's Loft
"Well THAT didn't work".
"Well THAT didn't work".
50 years ago Matt White of Paisley successfully raced barless blues and sent them right out to over 1,000 miles and got them backMurray wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 9:26 pm It's interesting, genetics, and some blokes put a lot of effort into breeding for a certain colour trait.
I'm not so bothered, I'm looking for good racing pigeons with speed and stamina.
King would know, is breeding to make say a homogenous barless blue going to possibly negatively affect other desirable traits such as hardiness, fertility, etc?
I'm unsure why they would use yellows? Yellow is a dilute of red, a base colour. The gene of barless is linked to 'barred' pigeons, blues & Mealies. A barless bird is STILL a blue or Mealy, just not expressing the bars.Devo1956 wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 9:11 pmYes King, there are a few vidoes on barless birds. Some talk about the yellows, i have only see the blues myself.king wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 1:32 pm This guy is in for a lot of disappointment. He will succeed with the blues, but he ain't going to with the colours like Black, Grizzle ect. Barless is a wing pattern as he rightly said, but so is spread. So a black cannot show TWO patterns? He will produce a black that carries the barless gene, but the black cannot itself express the barless colour itself.
A pigeon can genetically have both the barless pattern and the spread gene at the same time, but it will not "show" both visually. Genetically, a solid black pigeon is created when a bird with a blue base color carries the dominant spread gene. Because the spread gene acts like a solid coat of paint that evenly distributes dark pigment across the entire body, it completely masks the underlying wing pattern which in this case could be barless.
And it should also be noted that what many fanciers call 'barless mealies' aren't in fact 'true barless' pigeons. They are 'Ash spread'
This is a ash spread. A true barless mealy would still show the red neck.I got 2 barless blues from Matt White in 1983. Can remember picking BOTH up reported 30 miles away some 2 miles apart. Does that answer your questionDevo1956 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2026 12:03 am A question King, did any of your barless race well. If they did, how was their performance.?
Matt had them for years and got his to fly 1,000 miles. Mine not so far.
Yes it does King, so Matt did very well with them. I read reports some did over 1000 miles. Thank you for reply.king wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2026 12:51 amI got 2 barless blues from Matt White in 1983. Can remember picking BOTH up reported 30 miles away some 2 miles apart. Does that answer your questionDevo1956 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2026 12:03 am A question King, did any of your barless race well. If they did, how was their performance.?
Matt had them for years and got his to fly 1,000 miles. Mine not so far.