How do we know

[Murray]

Selecting off the shelf today to create a bloodline is easier then it was for multiple generations of fanciers the issue today is the quality of the fancier, it's like being given a bugatti and a land rover defender and not seeing the difference between the two, you end up using the defender to race and bugatti for endurance and obstacles

Well today you rightly say you can select off the shelf. The problem is many are mis-sold the dream. Many birds look the part and have the paperwork to back up the dream, but when put to the test their purchase fails. Many birds, more so sprint birds are 'Fast & Daft'. Many are fast getting from A to B, but when they end up at C, all alone with nobody to follow, they are fooked.
Give me the defender type that will fly maybe a bit slower, that ends up at C, but with a good sense of direction, will arrive eventually at B.

I agree, king.
There are pigeons that are competitive where they are racing in big liberations and being carried back, their speed often puts them on the board. The same pigeons racing in smaller clubs and having to fly on their own for a fair distance cannot do it.
Last year I was given a lovely Eijerkamp cock, pedigree full of National winners, because the bloke races in Bendigo which is a small club and often there are only 60 or 80 pigeons in a race and the flyers are spread out. Nothing the pigeon left was any good in those conditions.
I paired him to my Free Beer and sent the youngsters to Horsham where there are 600 or 800 or more in a race every week. They go good there, the racing suits them.
I also put one in the OLR, flying in a 1000 bird mob seems to suit it.

[Devo1956]

So when you look at birds like Harry of Jan Hoymanns, a winner of a Nat of over 39000 birds. with a good pedigree of winners in the genes. I crossed this line with a cock grandson of Harry, and a hen from Gaby Vandenabelle lines of Rudy. I was looking for youngsters that could be in the front, and maintain speed while others fell away. In 2018 in the Costa Del Sol OLR, I had a young hen that finished speed champion over 6 races. So i ask myself was this good breeding or a fluke.?

[Rdhd Danny]

@king who doesn't love the defender

[Rdhd Danny]

@devo what a lot of people don't realise Is Harry from Jan and gaby birds was very closely related it was Jan who told gaby to make the pairing that produced bliksem

[Devo1956]

@devo what a lot of people don't realise Is Harry from Jan and gaby birds was very closely related it was Jan who told gaby to make the pairing that produced bliksem

Yes Danny so true, I do believe we need to breed youngsters. From very good proven stock, and yes they can then be tested in the basket. I just wish i was still in the game,

[Rdhd Danny]

@devo yes absolutely, I understand people don't like to spend big or have had bad experiences buying paper birds, but just because the bird doesn't produce great birds straight away doesn't mean the birds no good, often it's the bird they pair it with or simply not understanding that lots of great birds genetically will skip a generation and then not understanding how to lock in those qualities when they do show,

[king]

@devo yes absolutely, I understand people don't like to spend big or have had bad experiences buying paper birds, but just because the bird doesn't produce great birds straight away doesn't mean the birds no good, often it's the bird they pair it with or simply not understanding that lots of great birds genetically will skip a generation and then not understanding how to lock in those qualities when they do show,

Whilst I'll agree they sometimes can skip a generation, how many fanciers have a year to waste? I'll agree some fanciers never get a winning family together simply because they can't wait that year, and buy something new.
But an established Winning family should not skip a generation, an individual bird may, if paired to a new outside cross, but if paired within the original family they should produce good birds every year? Just my take on it.