A Harsh Lesson at Bath: My Season Opener Disaster

[PeteDerby]

You're right Pete, it's a race - and not everybody can "win"

Winning, and winning consistently requires a certain "mindset", a certain "approach"

Some guys have it, and some guys don't

There can only be 1 winner, but the way a fancier manages his pigeons, and the approach towards them means he can definitely "choose to lose"

I think I’m guilty of not understanding fanciers not wanting to win with pigeons
In London when I was young it was ultra competitive everyone wanted to win it seemed and things could be very heated at times so I think that’s in me that it’s a sport
On the other hand I like getting out walking in the countryside I do that as I enjoy it , never thinking if it as a competitive maybe that’s how people are with pigeons it seems alien to me as I have never thought I don’t want to win when my ETA is approaching I still get nervous if there a min off it I get the hump on the sprints

I definitely want to win, Neil don’t misunderstand me. The point I’m making in saying it’s called racing not winning is the same when they say it’s called fishing not catching - as in sometimes you don’t no matter how hard you try, which is what keeps it a challenge.

[PeteDerby]

That’s good Pete

Best of luck today
Where are you racing from

We were at Frome which 130miles from me give or take. Really pleased with the way they came today - a lot closer together as a group, 40/42 back today - 1st, 5th,6th,7th,8th,9th club (another 4 in the top 20 I think). Sec said the lads at Hill Ridware should dominate the fed results given the wind but I’ve not seen any results and don’t know where they are.

Whatever, I’m very happy as it seems the extra work and feed tweaks have paid off. To top off a good day Legdown had his first ever race and came home

Thanks again for everyone helping me.

[PeteDerby]

Yes Pete, Hill Ridware will take the top 20 places in the Federation.

Rugeley will always hold all the aces when there's a sniff of East in the wind - these lads are too good to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Another good week for little Jack (see below)




In 4 races of his young career he's been :

1--2-3 194 birds
1st 198 birds
2-5
2-3-4 170 birds

The race yesterday is dominated at Fed level by Rugeley. But take those out of the equation Jack and you've got about 1150-1200 birds going from the East side of the Fed, and those hens of yours are 2nd and 3rd against about 1200 birds - so lots to be proud of6df2d496-5999-46d4-bae6-ab0de0bc7bd6.jpeg

I really ought to look at a map and understand the local geography for myself. But here’s the thing I don’t personally get, Mike - and this is an observation about what’s important to me not a criticism of anyone else - I see clubs in different feds so they switch between one or the other depending on which way the wind is blowing to ensure they dominate the result every week. Same with fanciers in my club, who chop and change week to week to be in the cards.

For me personally I want to get to the point where I have the birds coming consistently and I accept that loft position vs wind direction will have an influence, so some weeks they’ll be in my favour and other weeks someone else gets a look in. I would get zero satisfaction winning every week by chopping and changing clubs / feds etc.

There’s a bloke in our club who won the first 3 races. I was genuinely chuffed for him and I wanted to do my best to beat him as a challenge. I’m in several clubs and, sure, I could swap about to win more cards, but the question I ask myself is what would be the point, really?

The hen that won for me yesterday was a distance bird bred by Jeff Greenaway in Ireland and she went with half a tail. Yesterday he was 2, 8, 35, 41,42 etc open 13,526 birds. Section 1, 2, 8, 10, 11, 13th 1,754 birds. Club the first 22 places 321 birds. My ambition (not expectation note) is that kind of performance, not be the master of weather forecasting.

Like I say, each to their own and I genuinely don’t have any truck without anyone playing the system to be in the points. Just for me it wouldn’t work.

[Diamond Dave]

What a great attitude Pete, well done mate.
Sounds like you are doing plenty of winning anyway and long may that continue. A win against the wind will be even sweeter when it does come.
We have an entire club in our fed that goes with the wind.

[PeteDerby]

I really ought to look at a map and understand the local geography for myself. But here’s the thing I don’t personally get, Mike - and this is an observation about what’s important to me not a criticism of anyone else - I see clubs in different feds so they switch between one or the other depending on which way the wind is blowing to ensure they dominate the result every week. Same with fanciers in my club, who chop and change week to week to be in the cards.

For me personally I want to get to the point where I have the birds coming consistently and I accept that loft position vs wind direction will have an influence, so some weeks they’ll be in my favour and other weeks someone else gets a look in. I would get zero satisfaction winning every week by chopping and changing clubs / feds etc.

There’s a bloke in our club who won the first 3 races. I was genuinely chuffed for him and I wanted to do my best to beat him as a challenge. I’m in several clubs and, sure, I could swap about to win more cards, but the question I ask myself is what would be the point, really?

The hen that won for me yesterday was a distance bird bred by Jeff Greenaway in Ireland and she went with half a tail. Yesterday he was 2, 8, 35, 41,42 etc open 13,526 birds. Section 1, 2, 8, 10, 11, 13th 1,754 birds. Club the first 22 places 321 birds. My ambition (not expectation note) is that kind of performance, not be the master of weather forecasting.

Like I say, each to their own and I genuinely don’t have any truck without anyone playing the system to be in the points. Just for me it wouldn’t work.

You make valid points Pete

There are some fanciers who do not have the luxury of moving their birds around each week to "chase the wind". Others do have that ability and they try to maximise that advantage. Now, there's 2 takes on this.

1. In Horse Racing you regularly see trainers pull elite horses out of big races because of the ground. Maybe it's too firm, maybe it's too soft? Either way, what the trainer is basically saying is "these conditions that are present don't give my horse the best opportunity of winning today". And they pull the horse from the race. You see it all the time and it's 100% accepted. Nobody bats an eyelid to it.

2. This is a genuine example I'm going to present to you now Pete.
There's 2 lofts flying in the same village - a couple of hundred yards apart. They fly in separate clubs however. Fancier "A" goes out of his way to go to "A Club" and Fancier "B" goes to "B Club". Now, both clubs are affiliated to the same Federation, and therefore the birds that are racing back to the same village are liberated at the same time against each other (both competing for the same Fed honours, just different Club honours). Fancier "A" has a Stock cock that has genuinely bred 20 x 1st prizewinners. Sounds good doesn't it?
Only thing is "Fancier B" races against him week in week out (same liberation, just a different Club) and Fancier B has only been beaten by "Fancier A" 3 times in 6 years (flying a couple of hundred yards apart)
So you could easily argue that whilst this "Ace Breeder" has produced birds to win 20 x 1st prizes, if he raced in a different Club he'd have no such track record. Would you want one out of this "Ace Breeder" that's bred 20 x 1st?



The Rugeley lofts of Nesbitt & Leadbeater don't win the Burton & Derby Fed because there's East in the wind.
Yes, give them East and they'll hurt you with it, because they're too good to be giving an advantage to
I understand and know this better than anyone because I used to race 8 gardens from Nesbitt and 200 yards shy of Leadbeater - so I know what it takes to mix it with them and beat them.
It requires ABSOLUTE dedication. Anything less and you're shafted.
These are guys who have won the Combined Averages in the MNFC - they are proven, seasoned fanciers who know what they are doing

In the next 5-6 weeks Nesbitt and/or Leadbeater will win the Burton & Derby Federation when there's no East in the wind at all.
I'll bet you as much as you want on it.

Excellent points Mike. I don’t know the fanciers you refer to but some people just have that attention to detail that gives them the edge, so I guess they have that from what you describe.

An old mate of mine, long since passed, was a superb angler. No matter how I tried I could never beat him. He made these constant little tweaks to bait presentation to suit the conditions until it was perfect. I’m not sure I have enough years left to build that kind of knowledge in pigeon racing, but I’ll give it as good a go as I can and see where it takes me.

Thanks all once again for helping me.

[PeteDerby]

I really ought to look at a map and understand the local geography for myself. But here’s the thing I don’t personally get, Mike - and this is an observation about what’s important to me not a criticism of anyone else - I see clubs in different feds so they switch between one or the other depending on which way the wind is blowing to ensure they dominate the result every week. Same with fanciers in my club, who chop and change week to week to be in the cards.

For me personally I want to get to the point where I have the birds coming consistently and I accept that loft position vs wind direction will have an influence, so some weeks they’ll be in my favour and other weeks someone else gets a look in. I would get zero satisfaction winning every week by chopping and changing clubs / feds etc.

There’s a bloke in our club who won the first 3 races. I was genuinely chuffed for him and I wanted to do my best to beat him as a challenge. I’m in several clubs and, sure, I could swap about to win more cards, but the question I ask myself is what would be the point, really?

The hen that won for me yesterday was a distance bird bred by Jeff Greenaway in Ireland and she went with half a tail. Yesterday he was 2, 8, 35, 41,42 etc open 13,526 birds. Section 1, 2, 8, 10, 11, 13th 1,754 birds. Club the first 22 places 321 birds. My ambition (not expectation note) is that kind of performance, not be the master of weather forecasting.

Like I say, each to their own and I genuinely don’t have any truck without anyone playing the system to be in the points. Just for me it wouldn’t work.

You make valid points Pete

There are some fanciers who do not have the luxury of moving their birds around each week to "chase the wind". Others do have that ability and they try to maximise that advantage. Now, there's 2 takes on this.

1. In Horse Racing you regularly see trainers pull elite horses out of big races because of the ground. Maybe it's too firm, maybe it's too soft? Either way, what the trainer is basically saying is "these conditions that are present don't give my horse the best opportunity of winning today". And they pull the horse from the race. You see it all the time and it's 100% accepted. Nobody bats an eyelid to it.

2. This is a genuine example I'm going to present to you now Pete.
There's 2 lofts flying in the same village - a couple of hundred yards apart. They fly in separate clubs however. Fancier "A" goes out of his way to go to "A Club" and Fancier "B" goes to "B Club". Now, both clubs are affiliated to the same Federation, and therefore the birds that are racing back to the same village are liberated at the same time against each other (both competing for the same Fed honours, just different Club honours). Fancier "A" has a Stock cock that has genuinely bred 20 x 1st prizewinners. Sounds good doesn't it?
Only thing is "Fancier B" races against him week in week out (same liberation, just a different Club) and Fancier B has only been beaten by "Fancier A" 3 times in 6 years (flying a couple of hundred yards apart)
So you could easily argue that whilst this "Ace Breeder" has produced birds to win 20 x 1st prizes, if he raced in a different Club he'd have no such track record. Would you want one out of this "Ace Breeder" that's bred 20 x 1st?



The Rugeley lofts of Nesbitt & Leadbeater don't win the Burton & Derby Fed because there's East in the wind.
Yes, give them East and they'll hurt you with it, because they're too good to be giving an advantage to
I understand and know this better than anyone because I used to race 8 gardens from Nesbitt and 200 yards shy of Leadbeater - so I know what it takes to mix it with them and beat them.
It requires ABSOLUTE dedication. Anything less and you're shafted.
These are guys who have won the Combined Averages in the MNFC - they are proven, seasoned fanciers who know what they are doing

In the next 5-6 weeks Nesbitt and/or Leadbeater will win the Burton & Derby Federation when there's no East in the wind at all.
I'll bet you as much as you want on it.

Not sure how to upload the fed sheet screenshot but you weren’t wrong, Mike - their fed winner was 72 yd pm ahead my club winner and their club took all 20 fed positions.

I just wish the club would send in the same fed in an unfavourable wind rather than switching, but we’ve had that debate. No doubt about it they’re definitely another level compared to novices like me and just gives us something to aim for.

[PeteDerby]

You're so wrong there Pete, so let me put you straight

Hill Ridware always skip the first YB race of the season. Their members prefer to go to the Worcester Fed Frome race which is much further, and they're last droppers, so the birds are forced to think for themselves more. "On occasions" they'll miss the first OB race too.



This Saturday, the Burton & Derby Fed will be Yeovil. It's a West wind. The Rugeley lads I'm sure will be sending even though the wind is plum wrong for them, and they'll give away more overfly than normal (because Yeovil is situated more West than other racepoints). They've every reason to not feature on the Fed this week - but let me tell you now, they'll still fly their race and if I was racing I'd not be fearing this weekend let me tell you

I've nobbled this Fed on stronger West winds than what we've got on Saturday

Question is - the East side "should" win it if they're good enough. The odds are stacked in their favour.

48 hrs and we'll know the result.

Like I said, Mike,I’m a novice and in my first OB season, which is why I ask the group so many questions. I was told that Hill Ridware flip from fed to fed depending on the wind, you’ve told me different. It’s a minor point for me though. I just want to learn how to compete with the best in the relatively short time I’ll have in the sport.

You and the rest of the guys on here are amongst a number of people who kindly share their vast knowledge with novices like me. As it’s not an exact science it seems only natural that sometimes people’s views will sometimes contradict. I just have to pick the bones and find my own way.

[PeteDerby]

Took me 10 secs to find these examples Pete. Pay particular attention to the wind

Now, I totally understand why Mark is dominating the Fed on both East winds and West winds - but I think that puts me in the minority




https://www.elimarpigeons.com/articles/ ... n-05-06-25

https://www.elimarpigeons.com/articles/ ... n-13-06-25

Interesting. I’ve never looked on this website before. I will do from now on, thanks.

[PeteDerby]

Like I said, Mike,I’m a novice and in my first OB season, which is why I ask the group so many questions. I was told that Hill Ridware flip from fed to fed depending on the wind, you’ve told me different. It’s a minor point for me though. I just want to learn how to compete with the best in the relatively short time I’ll have in the sport.

You and the rest of the guys on here are amongst a number of people who kindly share their vast knowledge with novices like me. As it’s not an exact science it seems only natural that sometimes people’s views will sometimes contradict. I just have to pick the bones and find my own way.

Indeed you will find your own way Pete, and that involves thinking for yourself and not adopting something that somebody else has told you

The Ridware lads will most likely send elsewhere this week too, because they're members of more than 1 Federation

But yes, I expect them to send to Yeovil too - and if the East side do not make the most of their advantage then the boys over in the West will mop up any dip in performance that comes their way. They won't need a second opportunity.

See, I know these lads. I know how they think, how they operate, how they perform. I was one of them.

You seem to be having a dig at me Mike. Of course I think for myself otherwise I’d be doing 100 different things at once that all contradict each other. Nobody is born knowing this stuff, so I have to be a sponge then let my instincts kick in to find my way, but trying to catch up 30, 40, 50 years experience you others have is a tough ask.

As for the Ridware lads sending somewhere else in a different fed this weekend, that’s up to them and I totally respect their right to make that choice. I don’t ever recall clubs being able to do that in the 70’s and I raised it because it surprised me that it was allowed today, but I was a kid back then and not aware of what went on so maybe it’s always been a thing?

Thanks again for the advice.

[Winfort Lofts]

How you getting on now Winfort

A bit of a mixed bag tbh the last couple of weeks!

I had the week out, treated for respiratory, and canker, I also spent time sorting out the loft, took up the deep litter that had been down over winter, all dry inside but obviously dusty!

The first week back I was about 45 mins off the winner, who was on the top half the fed sheet! Obviously I'm still way behind, but much better than the first week!

The following weeks race I'm back to miles off again well over two hours behind.