For Andy

[Devo1956]

He’ll need deep pockets and long arms i think

I would say so Mike, if they are good that goes with the price.

[Diamond Dave]

Andy, I appreciate that the iris in both eyes are very full with the 2nd eye almost to the brim. Can you tell me what is the likely cause of that. It has obviously come from the sire and dam but what could've/should've been done to prevent them being so full.

[Andy]

Andy, I appreciate that the iris in both eyes are very full with the 2nd eye almost to the brim. Can you tell me what is the likely cause of that. It has obviously come from the sire and dam but what could've/should've been done to prevent them being so full.

The fullest one Dave is actually the first one. The gold with the reddish brown iris colour. These do make good racers. It has come as a result of continuously pairing pigeons with fuller iris’s together. To prevent this, one of the pairing needs to have a lot of room in the iris to absorb the strength of a fuller iris. This is why I would use eyesign as an extra tool for breeding rather than selecting racers.
These 2 eyes both have room in the iris and would make very good breeders.

[Andy]

Obviously eyesign is just another tool for selection and is used in conjunction with both race results and their breeding. But I have found that the best racers aren’t always the best breeders. As I’ve said before my best ever breeding hen was rubbish at racing. Could barely get home on the day, but was Dam, G.Dam & G.G.Dam of winners. She had a cracking old gold eye.

[MIL]

Obviously eyesign is just another tool for selection and is used in conjunction with both race results and their breeding. But I have found that the best racers aren’t always the best breeders. As I’ve said before my best ever breeding hen was rubbish at racing. Could barely get home on the day, but was Dam, G.Dam & G.G.Dam of winners. She had a cracking old gold eye.

It just shows that all roads lead to Rome

I woudn't say eyesign played no part at my loft, but if I had 10 things to consider then eyesign would probably have been no.9 or 10 on that list.

My best racers always went on to breed exceptional pigeons (without fail) and having a lot of violet eyed pigeons on the garden I had no alternative but to pair eyes of the same colour together. Made no difference - if they were good birds they were good birds

I can't tell you of poor racers that went on to be exceptional breeders because pigeons that weren't scoring consistently or breeding winners regularly wouldn't have been bred off to be honest at my loft. I focussed on those that I thought offered me greater chances of breeding good birds from their own track record

[Murray]

I don't understand it and always say so when someone asks me what I think of a bird's eye.
As I've said before, I am a fan of feet sign.
One thing I do know, the Dutch don't even have a word for it.

[MIL]

If a good eyesign man was beating me most weeks I'd have been on a mission to get to the bottom of it

That never happened so it never happened

[Diamond Dave]

Andy, is the " room" that you refer to on the outside of the iris or the inside or can it be both?

[Murray]

If a good eyesign man was beating me most weeks I'd have been on a mission to get to the bottom of it

That never happened so it never happened

I hear you.
I do think that very good pigeons have what I call a "knowing eye". Especially good stock pigeons. They seem to look right through you.
It isn't eye sign, but the poor ones never look at you like that.

[Andy]

Obviously eyesign is just another tool for selection and is used in conjunction with both race results and their breeding. But I have found that the best racers aren’t always the best breeders. As I’ve said before my best ever breeding hen was rubbish at racing. Could barely get home on the day, but was Dam, G.Dam & G.G.Dam of winners. She had a cracking old gold eye.

It just shows that all roads lead to Rome

I woudn't say eyesign played no part at my loft, but if I had 10 things to consider then eyesign would probably have been no.9 or 10 on that list.

My best racers always went on to breed exceptional pigeons (without fail) and having a lot of violet eyed pigeons on the garden I had no alternative but to pair eyes of the same colour together. Made no difference - if they were good birds they were good birds

I can't tell you of poor racers that went on to be exceptional breeders because pigeons that weren't scoring consistently or breeding winners regularly wouldn't have been bred off to be honest at my loft. I focussed on those that I thought offered me greater chances of breeding good birds from their own track record

I don’t disagree with your way Mike. It doesn’t make any difference I don’t think pairing the same colour eye signs together, more about one complementing the other. How many good breeders have been brought because of pedigree and never been raced. Or where it’s their siblings that have done the winning? Honestly not knocking you Mike, as you say many different ways.
I probably wouldn’t have kept that hen going on her young bird racing. But I was short of hens to use as widowhood hens so kept her. As I’ve said before I do like to let the widowers breed one or two youngsters early in the year. I did sometimes move eggs so that they didn’t all rear their own. But from memory I think this hen laid quicker than any others so they were kept. Both these first 2 youngsters won as young birds.
I did have her come back in one morning as a two year old with half her back ripped out. You could see her insides. She did fully recover . She always had a big dent in her back after that. Incidentally her nest sister was my Lerwick winner.