Mike’s help / todays result

[MIL]

I'm afraid I disagree with pretty much every word of the above

[NeilA]

We used to race youngsters over 200 miles on natural. Rennes on South, Selby on North. Bald and well up in the flights. Never had a problem getting them.
The Plymouth lads have a winter program where they have a few races during October/November with youngsters on their last couple of flights. They have good racing.

It’s not that Andy I will get them as the have just had 4 head winds so no issue there but when there moulting heavy they fly slower I never want pigeons flying slow unless forced to by a head wind I prefer them to be in the leading groups
It’s that not wanting to turn racers into homers theory of mine

Your thoughts and ideas are so different from mine. I’m certainly not saying you’re wrong as it’s the way you feel and works for you. You’ve done very well.
But I don’t think that you can change a pigeon from a racer to a homer or from a leader to a follower. The only way a pigeon will change from a racer to a homer is by it being demoralised either by being constantly chased by BOPs or losing that love of home.
Racing and training down here is obviously so much different than where you are. I wouldn’t get away with the way you train after work. We would have birds out overnight. One of my club mates has taken my 5 along with 65+ of his twice this week to 27 miles. He has let them go in 3 groups each time. On Tuesday the second group beat the first group back with the first group being well split and my best youngster taking over an hour and a half. On Thursday he said the first 2 groups cleared straight away. The third group just kept going round with one pigeon seeming to turn them all. Mine were in the third group. I had 3 together but the last one being my first bird from the last race took two and a half hours. He was missing 14 from the first 2 groups when he got home but all the third group were home bar 2. The first 2 groups had all been raced and he did get them all in the end with the last one turning up at 7.45. Nearly 4 hours later.

It’s a hell of a lot of effort to do what I do day in day out it’s not for everyone but I notice the real top boys put massive effort in
Mike is great at pushing always saying only a few weeks to go
At work sometimes I think I hope it rains tonight to give me a break
It’s not for everyone
Lads here train 40 miles a day I can’t do that so I do the best I can to arrive at Friday knowing I haven’t been lazy in the week and I have done the best I can for my birds to win not home

I totally disagree with the homing thing Andy a poor fancier can destroy good pigeon with feeding / health loads of things

[NeilA]

We used to race youngsters over 200 miles on natural. Rennes on South, Selby on North. Bald and well up in the flights. Never had a problem getting them.
The Plymouth lads have a winter program where they have a few races during October/November with youngsters on their last couple of flights. They have good racing.

It’s not that Andy I will get them as the have just had 4 head winds so no issue there but when there moulting heavy they fly slower I never want pigeons flying slow unless forced to by a head wind I prefer them to be in the leading groups
It’s that not wanting to turn racers into homers theory of mine

Your thoughts and ideas are so different from mine. I’m certainly not saying you’re wrong as it’s the way you feel and works for you. You’ve done very well.
But I don’t think that you can change a pigeon from a racer to a homer or from a leader to a follower. The only way a pigeon will change from a racer to a homer is by it being demoralised either by being constantly chased by BOPs or losing that love of home.
Racing and training down here is obviously so much different than where you are. I wouldn’t get away with the way you train after work. We would have birds out overnight. One of my club mates has taken my 5 along with 65+ of his twice this week to 27 miles. He has let them go in 3 groups each time. On Tuesday the second group beat the first group back with the first group being well split and my best youngster taking over an hour and a half. On Thursday he said the first 2 groups cleared straight away. The third group just kept going round with one pigeon seeming to turn them all. Mine were in the third group. I had 3 together but the last one being my first bird from the last race took two and a half hours. He was missing 14 from the first 2 groups when he got home but all the third group were home bar 2. The first 2 groups had all been raced and he did get them all in the end with the last one turning up at 7.45. Nearly 4 hours later.

Are they ok health wise ?

[MIL]

Anyone can train 40 miles a day Neil. That's not the answer at all

You've gotta use your head

How many times in the past 4 weeks or so have you sent me a pic of the sky and said "I'm going" and then I've stopped you going?

Form is a fine balance between work and rest once you've got full fitness and optimum health

You gotta know when to ease off, and you gotta know when to turn the screw

[NeilA]

Yes very true

[MIL]

I would yea cos my experience tells me that

I won my first 1st Fed aged 11 and continued to win them for the next 40 years

I've won the Fed with up to 9,813 birds competing and been 2nd National Ace Sprint Champion of the UK

I've been a 2 x West Midlands Region Sprint Champion

I've won the Fed by 2 min, 3 min, 4 min, 5 min at a time.

To do that pigeons need to be brave to strike out on their own and not scratch their arse looking for a hand to hold

If your birds are flying round the racepoint 60 secs after being libbed, mine are a mile down the road - literally

And that aint being caught up

I've been longest flier in the Fed, shortest flier, most Easterly and most Westerly

My birds come online - they don't provide an Uber service for my competitors going to their loft first

[worm]

Our club will most probably take the first 20 positions in the combine today. The combine would have had around 75 members sending around 2,000 pigeons. The winning pigeon with a velocity of 1673 was missing for 5 weeks from a trainer before the first race. Had only had a ETS ring put on on Thursday and was having its first race with 2 training tosses.

Oh good on you. Pat yourself on the back, that’s what you seem to want everyone else to do. I’m in a club with multi national winners who’s ideas are different to yours and I know who I would rather listen too.

what's wrong here then what's that about no need Mike is a wealth of knowledge and not trying to teach you to suck eggs but sounds like you don't want to know

[MIL]

Oh good on you. Pat yourself on the back, that’s what you seem to want everyone else to do. I’m in a club with multi national winners who’s ideas are different to yours and I know who I would rather listen too.

Yea and I raced one of them very regularly in the past when he lived near me

I haven't got the energy to try and find a sheet where he beat me

[NeilA]

Our club will most probably take the first 20 positions in the combine today. The combine would have had around 75 members sending around 2,000 pigeons. The winning pigeon with a velocity of 1673 was missing for 5 weeks from a trainer before the first race. Had only had a ETS ring put on on Thursday and was having its first race with 2 training tosses.

Oh good on you. Pat yourself on the back, that’s what you seem to want everyone else to do. I’m in a club with multi national winners who’s ideas are different to yours and I know who I would rather listen too.

what's wrong here then what's that about no need Mike is a wealth of knowledge and not trying to teach you to suck eggs but sounds like you don't want to know

Got to say I agree with Worm

Not sure what’s gone on Andy but Mikes only been helpful to me and most in the group and plenty of us have seek further help
I text Mike regular when I am in two minds and he’s never ignored what are to him my basic questions
I think we are lucky to have a ex fancier who won what he has be there to help
He raced in a very competitive period in a area where the sprint racing was very different to now
What you must understand is your kind of racing just didn’t happen to him within a few seconds all too lofts were timed in
My area is nothing like the area it was 20 years ago but you know within 2/3 mins when you need one and most will have them in that time
It’s like my training if I didn’t brainwash my babies I would be miles behind
Yesterday in the strong east wind I should be last club and possible only 4 lofts in the fed are in a worse position than me yet I got them coming bang on line
If I didn’t do my night time short training my birds would be coming out the west yesterday I’m sure of it

[NeilA]

I've sat and witched this thread for a couple of days, very interesting the different ways of looking at it.
My view is other than being born with a homing instinct, pigeons are born pretty much a blank sheet. A good routine at home and plenty of education can turn them into pigeons that leave the liberation in the front bunch and can break away.
In other words, winners.
A casual approach, with random training can turn them into followers, or pigeons that fly in the drag. Once that pattern is fixed, I have doubts that it is changed.
Looking at the results of races the same names appear at the top week after week and season after season. That indicates to me that they are doing something different.
And better.

Excellent post