Good practice/training.

[Buster121]

They will learn something from it for sure

[king]

I think clashing does mean lose of ybs if the size of teams is vastly different say 500 v 50
Could I ask why your ybs are out with old birds Andy that’s a big no for me just be interested in your view as what benefits the ybs get

I think you may lose a few if your birds are on their early tosses, but once given a few chucks joining with another pack shouldn't be a problem. Your birds should break from them, after all they have too when racing. I recall taking my birds to Retford some 45 miles. I had around 25. When I got to the training point I rested the birds a while and then released them. They flew across the fields and to my horror a flock of around 700 birds came from nowhere. My birds were swallowed up my the pack. And to make it worse they were heading in the opposite direction. I got in the car and headed home. After a couple of hours 20 arrived and the other 5 came split. How far they were pulled is anybody's guess. It's happen a few times over the years, often they bring extra birds with them when they return.

As for old birds and YBs out together, I never did this when racing as I wanted the YBs to range. But since I stopped racing I've only bred 2 or 3 YBs for myself each year. And since I no longer have a YB loft they are in with the old birds. This year I've just 2 YBs and they go out with the old birds on open hole for around 3 hours a day, everyday. A couple of Saturdays ago race birds were flying over the loft and the 2 YBs went missing. I got the old birds in at around 3pm and the 2 YBs were not back. I noticed then both on the loft at 5pm.

[goose1]

I can totally emphasise with Neil's approach in the sense that he's a fancier trying to progress and improve. The only way to do that is to constantly identify those who are the weakest (whether it be in terms of breeding or racing). The only true way to judge that is by performance. There's nothing else you can go on realisitically if you're ambitious.

If you're a fancier who just likes to send, see them come home and hope for the best well I wish you the very best of luck - but there's no adivce that I can offer someone like that. i'm not saying I won evey week, but I'd make it damned uncomfortable for someone to beat me

Phil started the season with 38. His yearlings flew the programme last year as YB. Aside from Race 1 when the hens weren't ready he's sent 38 each week. He still has 37 left despite widespread losses in his Club and surrounding Clubs. Returning home is the very least that I expect from them (of couese we can't help BoP etc). In 2 weeks time we'll judge what has retained their box for 2025. There's a YB team of 33 behind these, but how many of these get kept for the 2025 season has no bearing on the 2024 OB team. The OB have eiher earned your perch or you've not which is why some, in 2 weeks time will have to take their chance at Vire otherwise they won't be part of the 2025 team

When I raced I had an OB tream of no more than 20 cocks (ideally 18). I could house 28 but I purposely chose a number of boxes to remain closed. Invariably 10 or so would have held their box, so from a YB team of 35 or so I'd be looking for no more than 8 cocks and they raced the programme. Sometimes I let a young cock move on and his crime was that he'd won for me as a YB. So yes, just because a pigeon wins it doesn't necessarily mean its a good pigeon. Like Neil I wanted a pigeon to do well for me, and then slap me across the face time and time again with its performances and make it impossible for me for him not to be part of the team next year

without being disrespectful when I read such posts all I can do is laugh and say lucky you and anyone else who flys in an area (location not competition) where it is so easy to keep pigeons where you only drop 1 or 2 a season. If you boys flew where we have to I'd give you probably 1 but 3 seasons tops and yous would pack in. I'm not doubting your or anyone else's ability as a fancier because I would never do that but take it from me there's some bloody good fanciers up here and the lads have to keep (unless exceptionally poor) what they are left with. Its a different world up here. I'd say we'll have more pigeons left that just about anyone in our amal because our main aim is different to a lot of lads (although as previously said we want to do well with old birds first race to last) so we take a more softly softly approach but season in season out every loft up here is decimated so it's probably worth baring in mind when posted such things it isn't plain sailing and easy racing for lads everywhere. I bloody wish it was!

[goose1]

Can i ask where you based Goose? and what Amal you race in. Thank you.

West Cumbria unfortunately. Lovely place unless you race pigeons of course

[goose1]

I can appreciate where you live and the obstacles that you face Gavin

I'm only speaking from my experience from racing here in the Midlands, because thats all I'm qualified to draw my experience from

I hope you understand I'm never having a pop even if it comes across that way sometimes. I just like to try and say how I see things. I know you were a top class fancier and obviously your insight and contribution on sites such as this should be greatly appreciated by all.

[goose1]

I agree Goose but Andy only lost 1 cock I believe to he started a open loft when 2 more went this last month
So he can select lads in your area might not be able to
So what I posted is what I would do if I had 12 cocks and had 11 left to I went open loft .
He isn’t at your stage or even mine strike wise
I lost 5 real good ones but still selected the same as my strikes are not as bad as yours , Andy appears to be in a good position than either of us
I would move on any cocks that haven’t scored still at the point Andy’s at
There may be a point he can’t but for now he can and not many yearlings get quicker

Absolutely wasn't doubting your advice pal. I'll be honest it's probably envy as much as anything that we're unable to.do it

[Buster121]

I think members are very pleased, to have information shared on any topic. There is so much to learn in this sport, and everyday we can learn more. This will help keeping our birds in very good health, so my message to all. Keep sharing information, Knowledge is the key to the sport.

Not a truer word ever said

[king]

If It was doable, and I realize with the shop it possibly isn't, I would get as many little tosses as possible into them starting now. 2,5,8 miles it doesn't matter.
Then the week leading up to the first race I would find a nice point about 15 miles from home and go there every day, Sunday to Thursday. Hamper the whole lot for the first race on Friday.
I speak from experience, if your YB races are short hops like that that sort of prep give them the idea to jump out and go.

The saying around where I live was, the shorter the toss the bigger the loss. I know many fanciers around me who lose the vast majority of their YBs from very short tosses. And those fanciers who have the largest teams suffer the worst. When racing my first YB toss was always from at least 7 miles. The 2nd was from 12.

[king]

Every thing is routine when training young birds, so after their first stages of flying around the loft, and trapping when called. Basket training is needed, myself i would leave them in a basket overnight in the young bird section. then release from a short distance from the loft. Not long after this, they start to range and maybe go missing for up to 1 hour. This is all good education for getting to know their homing zone. Once they have done this, time for the road work to start. I would take them to a location that was safe to release around 5 miles, keep them at that point for around 5 days and move them on in distance to 12 miles and repeat for another 5 days. this would carry on from 20 miles then once they were at 35 miles. road training would then end before their first race. If you have the time to double up on training, even better it's all about knowing your birds are ready.

Dont forget, Feed to win.

I've always found this idea of basket training strange. You put birds in the basket and HOPE they find the water? Where is the training part? Unless you actually observe a bird drinking, how do you know ' your training' has been successful? And unless you dip EVERY birds head in the drinker you are hoping the birds just copy each other?
In the near 50 years I raced I never ever basket trained. The first time the YBs saw the basket they went training in it. My losses were no more than other fanciers, in fact I'd say they were less than most. My take on it was the same as when you wean the YBs, if the birds cannot copy other birds drinking, what chance have they finding there way home?
I have never had a stray YB in that couldn't find the drinker on the basket.

[Buster121]

Well king its like i always say, we all have different views on training. The youngsters of mine would have plastic water drinkers on the box they were reared in, along with a food box so they were on the way when they were weaned in the box. So basket training i used for all my youngsters, they had to get use to different surroundings, and the basket was one of them. But hey i may be wrong.

I have to admit that I always basket train mine as well, not so much to teach them how to eat or drink in, although that is part of it, but more so that they have no fear of the basket and are nice and relaxed in it by the time they have their first race.
As you say Devo, we are all very different which is what make this sport so enjoyable.

Trev, i also had a large bird cage in the back garden. I would put the youngsters in to have a look at the surroundings, and watch the older birds enter the loft. They would spend a day there also i had drinkers and feed on cages.

Remember that cage Dev