List of requirements to succeed.

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buster121
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January 14th, 2020, 8:35 pm

Potter29 wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 5:24 pm
I agrea buster no of a few good old boys whos lofts are the same they started with many years ago n still win to them even tho there half falling down etc
Sure there was one in this weeks book an old loft looks as old as the fancier and does well
jmccall
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January 14th, 2020, 9:12 pm

Here’s my old loft just after it had a revamp
This was a kids Wendy house joined onto a garden shed then another garden shed looks good from outside but inside was a maze
It was bone dry and draught free but god did it take some removing was burning it for days 2 fires going in garden 24/7 and chainsaw
Image
Image
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killer
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January 14th, 2020, 9:15 pm

A good job ,you were wasting the fire could of toasted some marshmellows on those flames ,cheers
jmccall
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January 14th, 2020, 9:26 pm

I removed all that as I was moving house pigeons were at a makeshift loft at a mates and my new loft was supposed to be erected in the new house
2 weeks before the buyer pulled out never been as stressed in my life and gutted about loosing my loft
In the end decided to put extension on house and stay put as couldn’t go through it all again glad I did now
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Andy123
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January 14th, 2020, 9:28 pm

An interesting post.
I would say the most important thing is the pigeon itself followed by the fancier and management then the loft and finally the food.
I put the pigeon first as if the pigeons aren’t good enough nothing else matters. Very few are actually good enough to win and win regularly. If it was about any of the other requirements any pigeon could potentially win which we all know isn’t the case.
I say this from various experiences. Firstly from racing pigeons over many years. All pigeons in any given loft are treated the same but only the odd ones will be good enough to win. Nothing anyone can do to change this.
Secondly from my years in dairy farming especially when down in Cornwall. Here we went for top yields. All the cows in the heard were in exactly the same building, treated the same and given exactly the same ration. The very best cows would produce 14,000 litres a year whilst the poorer ones would only produce around 8,000 litres and the average would be around 10,000 litres, all on the same management. Lastly from my years as a competitive swimmer. I won a fair few competitions upto western counties level competing against swimmers from 5 countries, but I was never going to be good enough to succeed at National level and above. I would come up against competitors in certain competitions that I know I couldn’t beat, no matter what, I just wasn’t quite good enough. I know with pigeon racing there are many variables that determine the winner, loft location, weather and a bit of luck but ultimately the best pigeons are the front runners.
I put the fancier and management second as with out this even the best pigeons won’t win regularly. I have seen on many occasions where a fancier usually down near the bottom of the sheet suddenly get a good one. This is because they had a good pigeon that happened to be right that weekend. This pigeon in the correct hands would probably win regularly. The management has to be right to get the best out of the pigeons. There are many different management systems that will get good results it’s up to the fancier to find a system that suits them and their birds.
John is quite right when he says the pigeon is more important than the system when it comes to distance racing. With distance racing it needs a management that can build a family over many years , so here the fancier needs to be a good stockman and be able to select and breed from the best. With sprint/middle distance racing there seems to be a much greater turnover of stock and families as the results need to be much more instant.
Part of the management involves the health and hygiene of the birds. Again there are many different views on this. Personally I don’t treat for anything as I feel a good strong natural immune system is very important. I do give fresh water twice a day but all I do is throw away what’s left in the drinkers and fill back up. The drinkers are rarely cleaned. The loft is scrapped out twice a day. Going back to the cows I always found that the best cows rarely had any health issues. No routine treatments were ever used on the cows apart from dry cow tubes.
The loft needs to provide what the birds need. A safe place, dry and free form draughts. Any type of loft will do providing it meets these requirements. Management in and around the loft needs to be such that the birds feel safe and un-afraid. Keep calm and get the confidence of the inmates. This will all help to enhance the love for home.
Finally the food. I feel that this just needs to be of sound quality and a mixture of grains. The food is really just a means of maintaining good health. Going back to the cows, they were given a good ration, we couldn’t expect to get high yields off of poor quality food or off of grass alone but even then some cows would out perform others.
Although I do think that a different mix needs to be given for distance racing compared to Sprint/middle distance racing I’m not sure how much difference it really make. Having said that I never ate anything different whether I was swimming races at 50 meters (sprint) or 1,500 metres (distance). In fact I would often compete at both distances in the same meet. I think the main thing with the feed is to keep them fit and healthy.
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Andy123
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January 14th, 2020, 9:35 pm

jmccall wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 9:12 pm
Here’s my old loft just after it had a revamp
This was a kids Wendy house joined onto a garden shed then another garden shed looks good from outside but inside was a maze
It was bone dry and draught free but god did it take some removing was burning it for days 2 fires going in garden 24/7 and chainsaw
Image
Image
Loft did look good John. Shame you pulled it down unnecessarily. The new one looks smart though.
I burnt my old loft and took what couldn’t be burnt to the dump when I stopped racing following my marriage break up 15 years ago. Now wish I hadn’t as I’m still at the same place and having got back into the sport 4 years ago could have done with it all.
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Muzza
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January 14th, 2020, 11:43 pm

Andy123 wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 9:28 pm
An interesting post.
I would say the most important thing is the pigeon itself followed by the fancier and management then the loft and finally the food.
I put the pigeon first as if the pigeons aren’t good enough nothing else matters. Very few are actually good enough to win and win regularly. If it was about any of the other requirements any pigeon could potentially win which we all know isn’t the case.
I say this from various experiences. Firstly from racing pigeons over many years. All pigeons in any given loft are treated the same but only the odd ones will be good enough to win. Nothing anyone can do to change this.
Secondly from my years in dairy farming especially when down in Cornwall. Here we went for top yields. All the cows in the heard were in exactly the same building, treated the same and given exactly the same ration. The very best cows would produce 14,000 litres a year whilst the poorer ones would only produce around 8,000 litres and the average would be around 10,000 litres, all on the same management. Lastly from my years as a competitive swimmer. I won a fair few competitions upto western counties level competing against swimmers from 5 countries, but I was never going to be good enough to succeed at National level and above. I would come up against competitors in certain competitions that I know I couldn’t beat, no matter what, I just wasn’t quite good enough. I know with pigeon racing there are many variables that determine the winner, loft location, weather and a bit of luck but ultimately the best pigeons are the front runners.
I put the fancier and management second as with out this even the best pigeons won’t win regularly. I have seen on many occasions where a fancier usually down near the bottom of the sheet suddenly get a good one. This is because they had a good pigeon that happened to be right that weekend. This pigeon in the correct hands would probably win regularly. The management has to be right to get the best out of the pigeons. There are many different management systems that will get good results it’s up to the fancier to find a system that suits them and their birds.
John is quite right when he says the pigeon is more important than the system when it comes to distance racing. With distance racing it needs a management that can build a family over many years , so here the fancier needs to be a good stockman and be able to select and breed from the best. With sprint/middle distance racing there seems to be a much greater turnover of stock and families as the results need to be much more instant.
Part of the management involves the health and hygiene of the birds. Again there are many different views on this. Personally I don’t treat for anything as I feel a good strong natural immune system is very important. I do give fresh water twice a day but all I do is throw away what’s left in the drinkers and fill back up. The drinkers are rarely cleaned. The loft is scrapped out twice a day. Going back to the cows I always found that the best cows rarely had any health issues. No routine treatments were ever used on the cows apart from dry cow tubes.
The loft needs to provide what the birds need. A safe place, dry and free form draughts. Any type of loft will do providing it meets these requirements. Management in and around the loft needs to be such that the birds feel safe and un-afraid. Keep calm and get the confidence of the inmates. This will all help to enhance the love for home.
Finally the food. I feel that this just needs to be of sound quality and a mixture of grains. The food is really just a means of maintaining good health. Going back to the cows, they were given a good ration, we couldn’t expect to get high yields off of poor quality food or off of grass alone but even then some cows would out perform others.
Although I do think that a different mix needs to be given for distance racing compared to Sprint/middle distance racing I’m not sure how much difference it really make. Having said that I never ate anything different whether I was swimming races at 50 meters (sprint) or 1,500 metres (distance). In fact I would often compete at both distances in the same meet. I think the main thing with the feed is to keep them fit and healthy.

Good reply, Andy.
Regards,

Murray
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killer
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January 15th, 2020, 7:10 pm

Yep very good ,it reminds me of when I was a Boy my Pop had some Cows ,most house holds did ,or some one in the street had them ,at that time ,Andy I had aJersey Cow that followed me every where ,raised her from a couple of days old anyway when she was About 2years Old ,pop must of taken her to a Bull as she got bigger & had a Calf ,which was a young Bull Calf ,so I played with him ,like I had done with his mother as a boy ,But I found out they the Bulls are crazy ,he attacked anyone he saw ,so we used to chain him up ,getting back to pigeons one of the things Pop did was use the first milk produced when gave birth to the pigeons ,mixed in there water ,never questioned. Why ,thinking about it must of been the Probiotics in it , the birds always looked good using it ,cheers
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Andy123
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January 15th, 2020, 7:37 pm

killer wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 7:10 pm
Yep very good ,it reminds me of when I was a Boy my Pop had some Cows ,most house holds did ,or some one in the street had them ,at that time ,Andy I had aJersey Cow that followed me every where ,raised her from a couple of days old anyway when she was About 2years Old ,pop must of taken her to a Bull as she got bigger & had a Calf ,which was a young Bull Calf ,so I played with him ,like I had done with his mother as a boy ,But I found out they the Bulls are crazy ,he attacked anyone he saw ,so we used to chain him up ,getting back to pigeons one of the things Pop did was use the first milk produced when gave birth to the pigeons ,mixed in there water ,never questioned. Why ,thinking about it must of been the Probiotics in it , the birds always looked good using it ,cheers
It would probably been because of the colostrum in the first milk. This is usually quite thick but as you say full of goodness and essential to the calf in the first few hours of birth to give it the antibodies against any bugs that may be around the farm or herd.
The channel Island bulls are very temperamental. I had Guernseys when I had my own herd. You always had to be weary of the bulls. In Cornwall we had Holsteins. I had one bull that I showed as a calf so he was halter trained. He was bred from an embryo imported from America and put into one of our own cows. As a 3 year old I had to move him from one yard to another down a road. By this time he was taller than me, and I’m 6ft 4in, and weighing nearly a ton. He hadn’t been on a halter since a calf. I put him in the crush and put the halter on him. I opened the front of the crush and he walked out. I walked him down the road like a puppy 🐶 😊
buster121
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January 15th, 2020, 8:34 pm

killer wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 7:10 pm
Yep very good ,it reminds me of when I was a Boy my Pop had some Cows ,most house holds did ,or some one in the street had them ,at that time ,Andy I had aJersey Cow
Was it knit one pearl one :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry mate couldn't resist
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