1st round of youngsters

[Andy]

The only real way to find out would be to have droppings tested. But I’ve never done it before and think that some of these testing companies just want to sell their treatments. I don’t think treating blind for the sake of it does any good. I do think it’s a case of survival of the fittest.
As the 4 in 1 done nothing, either the product isn’t any good or the birds aren’t suffering from cocci, canker or worms.

You might be right Andy. The people are doing the tests so they can find a problem and sell you a cure.
It's a bit like fanciers with microscopes. Some of them spend so much time looking at the droppings that they stop looking at the pigeons.

It is a strange thing. The pigeons that seem to be the worst are my older pigeons. The 2 worst naturals are my 2 oldest pigeons at 7 & 8. The worst 3 cocks and the worst hen are all 3 year olds. I have got a yearling hen who does seem to go off her legs. But then she seems ok. Having looked on the website for any clues the best site I found that got closest to my symptoms was an Australian site. It was suggesting that the pigeons could be suffering from Kidney failure. There were quite a few different reasons why this could occur. There was no suggested treatments that would help. The strange thing is that even on this site, and on other ones I looked at, they all said about the colour of the droppings being green, mine aren’t there just very watery, and mortality was quite high. But apart from the 4 youngsters that died in the nest at around a week old, 1 that I culled and 1 4 year old hen that had problems last year, I haven’t lost any. The wattles are white, body weight is generally good and although watery droppings, some are ok, there are also a good amount of down feathers being shed. This morning 9 of the 11 cocks flew well, so improving.

[Trev]

A week on the youngsters are coming on nicely. The elder ones are now flying up into the perches and one in particular is going out into the aviary every day when opened up. The droppings on a lot of the birds both old and young has improved but the odd ones still have quite watery droppings. It’s only the cocks that are going out. 6 fly well but the other 5, which are probably the ones that still have wet droppings don’t fly much. They are looking ok and handle well. Really don’t know what the problem is. It’s the same with the hens. Most ok but the odd ones still not quite right, but they are still feeding some of the youngsters. The naturals which are in the other loft are the same. I did try treating a couple of the old naturals that were the worst and one of the hens with a 4 in 1 spot on three days ago but no difference in them. I don’t think any are likely to die but would like to see the droppings better.
I’ve been reading all sorts but not getting any answers. I still think that some of the problem was the amount of grit they were eating. Also I opened a different bag of corn which seemed ok but maybe one of the grains weren’t right.
I am going to go back to doing what I always used to do. No treatment and those that survive are the ones worth keeping.

Good to see they coming on Andy and I hope the other ones pick back up as well, glad you put that up about the 4 in 1 as I considered trying it the other day and was going to get some next week but won't bother now, I did mean to ask other day how they was doing but totally forgot sorry, but weather really not helping lofts stay dry at present

I've tried the 4 in 1 in both tablet form and spot on, both times I ended up with sick birds so haven't used it since !! Having that I know fanciers who swear by it !! I won't treat mine again this year but if I did I'd definitely go back to using individual treatments.

[Trev]

The only real way to find out would be to have droppings tested. But I’ve never done it before and think that some of these testing companies just want to sell their treatments. I don’t think treating blind for the sake of it does any good. I do think it’s a case of survival of the fittest.
As the 4 in 1 done nothing, either the product isn’t any good or the birds aren’t suffering from cocci, canker or worms.

You might be right Andy. The people are doing the tests so they can find a problem and sell you a cure.
It's a bit like fanciers with microscopes. Some of them spend so much time looking at the droppings that they stop looking at the pigeons.

It is a strange thing. The pigeons that seem to be the worst are my older pigeons. The 2 worst naturals are my 2 oldest pigeons at 7 & 8. The worst 3 cocks and the worst hen are all 3 year olds. I have got a yearling hen who does seem to go off her legs. But then she seems ok. Having looked on the website for any clues the best site I found that got closest to my symptoms was an Australian site. It was suggesting that the pigeons could be suffering from Kidney failure. There were quite a few different reasons why this could occur. There was no suggested treatments that would help. The strange thing is that even on this site, and on other ones I looked at, they all said about the colour of the droppings being green, mine aren’t there just very watery, and mortality was quite high. But apart from the 4 youngsters that died in the nest at around a week old, 1 that I culled and 1 4 year old hen that had problems last year, I haven’t lost any. The wattles are white, body weight is generally good and although watery droppings, some are ok, there are also a good amount of down feathers being shed. This morning 9 of the 11 cocks flew well, so improving.

I do like using the Gem Strike 2, it is the one thing I've tried each time I've had a sickness of some sort and it does genuinely seem to work. I usually use it with the Gethepax but this year I haven't bought that, I've just got the Strike, I use it once a week, hopefully as a prevention.

[Buster121]

SALMONELLOSIS OR PARATYPHOID
Signs of the disease;
GUT PARATYPHOID
Salmonella confined to the gut can be regarded as a true carrier of the disease as the only symptoms are mild or chronic loose droppings. When the pigeon passes droppings the Salmonella is released to infect other birds. Salmonella droppings are described as being green, smelly, bubbly and loose. Youngsters born with infection from the egg or who pick it up within the first few days of life may die with acute watery diarrhoea since they are not old enough for their immune system to have had a chance to build up immunity to this disease.
Eggs that are produced by the cock and hen that have Salmonella or E.coli in the droppings can give a 'coating' fo Salmonella/E.coli to the eggs, the bacterium passes into the egg where it will multiply. This will kill the developing chick causing a 'dead in the egg shell' scenario.

SYSTEMIC PARATYPHOID
After the salmonella leaves the gut (if the bird is under stress) it enters the blood stream where it multiplies before moving to other sites eg joints and the brain.

JOINT PARATYPHOID
Salmonella circulating in the blood stream can settle into joints.This makes the joint painful (dropped wing syndrome) and results in the birds inability to fly.

NERVOUS PARATYPHOID
Salmonella circulating in the blood stream can be defined as 'septicaemia' symptoms include lack of balance, mis-pecking food, head twisting. These symptoms resemble paramyxo virus, however if you have vaccinated your birds you may discount PMV infection.

DISEASE PREVENTION
The effective control of Salmonellosis is by stopping the transfer of the disease and not allowing the organism to survive outside the host. First move is to identify the source of infection and eliminate this. The most common sources of Salmonella are ferel pigeons and rodents followed by ordinary pigeons. Next clean the loft twice daily, although the floor can look clean, it will not be bacterologically clean, Using Virkon S as a discinfectant is safe and effective. The blow torch is totally effective and if used thoroughly has the advantage of totally sterilising the lofts and surfaces of all microbes.

TREATMENT
Many antibiotics can be used eg Amoxycillin, Chlotetracycline, Furazolidone, Enrofloxacin. Enrofloxacin brand name BAYTRIL is a favourite as it enters the joints and the brain where Salmonella penetrate. Whichever drug is chosen, it is necessary to treat every bird in the loft for the recommended time period and to keep the loft very clean using discinfection daily. We also recommend YBS supplement before treatment as this will keep your birds stable and will help reduce deteriation, also use after to give the birds the added multivitamins and electrolytes to help build the birds back up to full strength.

Please contact our Meditech staff for help and advice as some medications we can only supply at the Pharmacy.

Call 0121 505 6370 or Email: [email protected]

[Devo1956]

Andy if you are going to stay the Natural way of treating your birds, I would boil eucalyptus leaves for 12 minutes and leave to cool. Then put in drinking fountain, do this for three days to start, Then once every week, it should keep them healthy. Another natural product that will help is Mugwort tea . Just my thoughts.

[Devo1956]

Andy a little video, it may help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APsTbBDTftE

[Murray]

If it's Salmonella, and it might be, I would leave the pigeons to work through it and recover. Those that are weak might not survive.
The ones that do recover will be the stronger ones.

[Murray]

The only illness that worries me in the pigeons is canker. They don't recover from it once it is acute. They have to be treated.
Cocci, leave them alone, keep them warm and fed, they recover. Salmonella, or paratyphoid, if they are strong they often recover.
I agree with Devo, things to help promote health are a great help. I have tried all sorts of herbs and teas over the years, now I stick to freshly crushed garlic and apple cider vinegar. Like all natural health products it must be used often. Unlike prescription medications they have no residual effect.

[Devo1956]

The only illness that worries me in the pigeons is canker. They don't recover from it once it is acute. They have to be treated.
Cocci, leave them alone, keep them warm and fed, they recover. Salmonella, or paratyphoid, if they are strong they often recover.
I agree with Devo, things to help promote health are a great help. I have tried all sorts of herbs and teas over the years, now I stick to freshly crushed garlic and apple cider vinegar. Like all natural health products it must be used often. Unlike prescription medications they have no residual effect.

To be honest Murray, i have always worked on prevention. I think when you are dealing with athletes, its important to keep them in tune. Then when racing comes up fine tune them, no difference to a formula 1 car.

[Andy]

Thanks for all the replies. The droppings are not like those described for salmonella Buster. There not green, bubbly and they have no smell. That’s what’s making this strange. These are 4 different nest boxes in the cocks section this morning.

These are the worst 2.

These are from 2 of the others.

As you can see even the worst 2 have a few down feathers in them.

This is some of the youngsters.