New feeding thread

[Murray]

Yes, Andy, I totally agree, the best way to overfeed pigeons is to keep them constantly hungry. They attack the feed like it is the last food they will ever see. I also think that the wrong feed, and lack of essential nutrients will make them eat and eat, because they are trying to get something they need.

Some might disagree with me, but I think a peas only diet for nest birds is wrong. Wrongydy wrong wrong wrong. I feed my stock birds the same mix as the race birds and extra peas on the side. They also get a spoon full of FRESH grit every day. And still, I saw Gordon and Mrs Gordon, and the Good Red Thone' and his mate, out on the side of the street eating dirt and grit and, who knows?

My pigeons are like Andy's. I can pick one up after they have gone to bed. I don't often find one with a crop bulging because they have gorged themselves.

[Andy]

I feed the same mix most of the year. Regardless of weather feeding youngsters, sitting, racing etc. A good all round mix. I will just change to or add the Irish Ruby mix when the distances get longer. This contains 2 sorts of maize, red and yellow. They also get a few peanuts and sunflower hearts.
The birds know what they need. Selling and feeding wild bird food it is surprising how the wild birds change their diets during the season. They will eat more suets during winter months, more insect based food and live mealworms during rearing etc. They change the amounts and requirements depending on weather. Take a look at any of the feral pigeons in the towns. You rarely see a poorly one. They probably wouldn’t be able to fly long distances and look a bit greasy sometimes but they still look quite good just living on scraps.

[Andy]

I have been thinking about this thread. It is very interesting.
I think the biggest problem with feeding is the fancier! They think they know best and what’s required. They treat the pigeons all the same and not as individuals. The requirements are different for different pigeons. Look at this another way.. I am 6ft 4” and weigh 14 stone, Roxanna is 5ft 2” and weighs 9 stone. Our requirements are different, as are our likes and dislikes of different foods. It’s the same with pigeons.
I also don’t think you can feed for future races. You can only feed for what’s required at the time. For example: if I decided to run a marathon in 2 months time I could/wouldn’t eat food now for the race in the future. That would only suppress my levels of fitness. I would carry on eating as I am to start with. I would then start training. As the amount of training increased the amount of food I required would increase to maintain my energy levels. I think it is the same with the pigeons. They will eat more as they fly more. So leaving food down all the time allows them to adjust their intake to the amount of work they’re doing. Don’t forget that along with any training that we might be giving they will also be exercising around home and if their levels of fitness are increasing and their flying around home increases their feed levels will increase.
I know I keep going back to my days as a herd manager in dairy farming but it does influence my thinking on feeding.
Back in the early days the old way of feeding in a simple way was to feed a maintenance ration outside the parlour then top up to yield with concentrates in the parlour. When they first calved and yield was at peak the amount of concentrates fed would be quite high. They would be recorded on a monthly basis. As the yield started to drop we would cut the amount of concentrate fed. This would then mean that their yield would drop a bit more and so concentrates cut again as the lactation progressed. On this system they would peak at around 40 litres a day and be down to around 10 litres per day by the end of the lactation giving a lactation yield of around 6,000 litres. Feeding grass during the summer was always a problem as the quality could never be guaranteed depending on whether it had rained or not.
Later I decided to go for high yields which involved a completely new feeding regime. I decided to take the feeders out of the parlour and do a complete ration outside. This meant getting a mixer feeding wagon and feeding a high quality mix with a high percentage of maize silage instead of grass silage plus a good mix of concentrates. The cows were kept inside all year round with the same ration in front of them from the day they calved until the end of their lactation. This meant that they ate what ever they wanted but every mouthful was virtually the same. With this feeding regime my best cows would peak at over 80 litres per day and because their feed wasn’t cut, only by their own requirements, they would still be giving 40 litres per day with a lactation around 12,000 litres.
This proved to me that trying to feed for what I thought they required wasn’t the right way. If allowed to regulate themselves they perform better.

[Murray]

What you say makes perfect sense, Andy.

I do leave feed in the nest boxes of the old birds 24/7. They get the normal mix, and pick out what they want. Every couple of days I empty the scraps out of the bowls, and it is usually milo, wheat and a few peas.
The young birds, on the other hand, I feed twice a day, to make them obedient to the call. However, as they get fitter and fly harder, the amount is increased. They always are fed to what they need.
What you say about the biggest issue with feeding pigeons is the fancier is pretty right. There are more 'old wife's tales' and superstitions surrounding the care and feeding of pigeons than anything else I know!

[Murray]

I agree too, that you cannot feed for races that are weeks or months away. Energy taken from food eaten today will be used up in powering the metabolism, i.e. staying alive, and in exercise. Simply keeping the body alive uses a surprising amount of energy, and thinking uses up a lot, apparently. Which may explain something.

I read that the Australian marsupials like koalas are so dopey and dim witted because they have adapted to living on a very low energy diet of gum leaves by having slow brain functions. This uses less of the valuable energy in the diet.

Pigeons, on the other hand, are active and smart, and flying uses a lot of energy. What we feed them today is used in the daily exercise and the process of living. There is a belief that we can 'load them up' with fats and starch before they go to a race. One European fancier, regarded as one of the best, says he doesn't believe in that any more either. He reckons that if they spend two or three nights in the hamper they have metabolized that food and used it up.

Interesting. Very interesting.

[Andy]

The new feeding regime didn’t work on all the cows. The best cows were good converters of feed into milk. They would generally be a bit on the lean side, good condition, but give very high yields converting their feed into milk. The poorer cows weren’t so good converters. They would be fatter with lower yields as instead of converting their feed into milk they just put on weight. These poorer cows would be sold on. I think it’s the same with the pigeons. Some, the better ones, will utilise the feed we give them well and fly well. Others will just be lazy. Probably not eat so much as their requirements won’t be as much as those that fly well. They won’t necessarily be fatter but just won’t exercise so well. I also think that the birds that utilise their feed best are the ones that will keep going even when things get tough. The poorer ones will just go down. As with milk yields telling us who the best cows are race results tell us who the best pigeons are.
I agree with what you say about birds in a hamper. For the Nationals and certainly the longer internationals the birds can spend up to a week in the basket. By this time the all the pigeons in the convoy would have the same levels of nutrition regardless of what they were fed prior.