What amount of importance should we pay to them. For me, although they are nice to see and they may give you an insight as to what the breeding behind them is, for me that’s about it. What’s the good of having a great pedigree in a pigeon where the parents were bred and raced elsewhere, often even in a different country and showing only the best results, often from siblings and not the pigeons in the pedigrees themselves. I would much rather have my own pedigrees. Where I know all that the pigeons have done from their worse to their best and in what competition knowing what the race had been like, be it easy or hard. What the wind had been and how many birds were competing. I would give all pigeons a chance to prove themselves both in racing and breeding. I wouldn’t wait until they had done well in racing before breeding from them. I have found over the years that some of my best breeders have done nothing racing. I don’t mind breeding from untried yearlings. Often the first young can be the best. If I find that I have subsequently lost a potential breeder by racing it so be it. At least I may have some offspring first. If in the first couple of nest though I find some very promising youngsters I wouldn’t hesitate to stop the parents.
It is great to see now with our venture that I now have youngsters with 3 or 4 generations of birds bred down from our members. I said at the start that one of my aims would be to build a family around members birds. The one thing that does upset me when I look back is some of the birds that have been lost from trainers or races or have gone missing from around home. Some probably my own fault.
Although no great performances yet I still think things are going in the right direction and we have had some good results in tough competition. I am looking forward to next year.
Pedigrees
I agree with you on that, Andy, a pedigree is a guide to what your pigeon is descended from, and what you might expect it to turn out like.
That great Dutch champion, Ad Shaerlaeckens, thinks that relying on pedigrees is foolishness, and so do many other top European fanciers.
A piece of paper does not make a champion.
That great Dutch champion, Ad Shaerlaeckens, thinks that relying on pedigrees is foolishness, and so do many other top European fanciers.
A piece of paper does not make a champion.
Greetings from the land down under. 
A pedigree is only of any use to show whether the pigeon has come from several generations of winners, preferably Fed or national winners, or is descended from several generations of homing pigeons, with few or no prizes to their names.
One thing is true, more often than not. Pigeons are like racehorses. They seldom throw anything better than themselves. That's where a pedigree is useful. It doesn't mean you have good pigeons, but it can mean you don't have ordinary ones.
One thing is true, more often than not. Pigeons are like racehorses. They seldom throw anything better than themselves. That's where a pedigree is useful. It doesn't mean you have good pigeons, but it can mean you don't have ordinary ones.
Greetings from the land down under.
I think a pedigree is useful when it’s your own. Meaning that if you have various pigeons back in a pedigree it gives you a good guide when it comes to breeding. You can then breed back into pigeons in the pedigree especially if doing any inbreeding. You can’t do that with a pigeon just brought in that you have no parents, grandparents of. I will often look to pair sire to daughter or granddaughter or dam to son or grandson. You have the advantage of having half brothers and sisters etc. You also know all the bad things in the pedigree. You also then know how many other offspring have been useless.
A piece of paper that just gives ring numbers and names, the good results achieved and often of pigeons well back in the pedigree or of half brothers and sisters is only any good when selling pigeons.
A piece of paper that just gives ring numbers and names, the good results achieved and often of pigeons well back in the pedigree or of half brothers and sisters is only any good when selling pigeons.
Back just enjoying club racing for the time being.
I do agree with most of what has been said and agree that the only real proof of breeding is the basket, I also understand that even the best breeders won't necessarily produce champions in every nest and that their offspring won't necessarily be breeders. Now that is where I think pigeon pedigrees potentially fall down is that often we are buying birds so far removed from the actual champions that it becomes a lottery. However I think as a starting point to develop your own team then pedigrees certainly have a place and also as Andy says our own pedigrees are important for us to be able to continue to improve our own stock, having said that you would never get a pedigree from Des Coulter as all his information was in his head.
What does however surprise me is that for two people who made successful careers with stock, one as a Jockey and the other a Herdsman say they put very little value on pedigrees !!!
What does however surprise me is that for two people who made successful careers with stock, one as a Jockey and the other a Herdsman say they put very little value on pedigrees !!!
In breeding dairy cattle you many tried to breed replacements out of your best cows. But like I have said with the pigeons most of our heifers would be put to a Holstein bull. The thinking behind this was that in theory if the breeding was right the up and coming offspring should possibly be an improvement on their parents. The trouble with breeding cows is that it’s nearly 4 years before you know whether a “pairing” had worked. 9 months from insemination to calving. Then providing the offspring was female another 2 years before she herself would calve and another 10 months before they completed a lactation to know how much milk they had produced. There were of course other things like type and confirmation that could be assessed a lot younger. The sires used would mainly be tested bulls with many hundreds of daughters and a high % reliability. A lot of these sires would be dead before being proven but thousands of straws of semen would have been frozen and stored from them. We did used to try a few young bulls that were on testing programs each year as again in principal, from their pedigrees, they should be better than their predecessors. Only a very small percentage, around 5%, of those tested ever went on to be proven sires though. Showing then how unreliable a pedigree is in proving anything. This makes me think that when all of a sudden you get a lot of pigeons being sold out of the next big name that probably only around 5% of them will actually turn out to be really good.
Back just enjoying club racing for the time being.
I like to site pedigrees ,but remember they are only as good as the person writing them, since money as come into the game ,seems to be a lot coming off few birds ,that’s where eye sign can help you out plenty of sons &daughters off so called champion pairs beinging sold ,hold no relationship to them ,cheers
The pedigree of the mother and father of the grizzle Thone' cock.
It doesn't mean he is a good one or will breed good ones, but it does indicate that his family are capable of racing at National and International level. It has to be a bit easier to produce good ones from a strain that throws good ones.
Thge grizzle doesnt like having his picture taken.
It doesn't mean he is a good one or will breed good ones, but it does indicate that his family are capable of racing at National and International level. It has to be a bit easier to produce good ones from a strain that throws good ones.
Greetings from the land down under.