A new topic for discussion that hopefully will be of interest. Based on our venture to fly Barcelona or Lerwick if north road. I have said from the start that I was going to be upfront and transparent in what we do and tell members of what we are doing and how things are going, both good and bad.
Anyway back to the topic. This is partly for our good friends Killer and Murray from down under.
My thoughts are that these birds need time to mature and develop naturally as I want them to be able to compete for a few years and not just be blown out in one or two. I think 150 miles is far enough for youngsters, 350 for yearlings and 500 as two year olds and then to the longest races after that.
Young birds: I pair up in February so don’t have youngsters hatching until mid March and through April. Young bird racing starts in this country at end of July with the national races in August and early September. By this time our eldest youngsters are still only 5 months old with the younger ones barely 12 weeks old. Looking at some this evening the eldest ones are up on their fifth flights so will soon be going into the body moult. These factors are why I’m not fussed about racing them as youngsters. They will get a few short trainers though. It’s not as though I have the option of a few short club races. These birds will only race in nationals against pigeons flying to all parts of the country so young bird racing can be difficult for them and they can and do end up flying many more miles than the race point would suggest.
Yearlings: These will start racing end of April going through until July. So these birds are not much more than a year old. Hopefully they would have gone through a good moult, be paired up and probably raised a youngster or two, but still maturing. Some of these may have had a race as a youngster but many wouldn’t. The first races for our yearlings are generally between 150 & 200 miles. I’m not worried about jumping birds into these races whether raced before or not. I think that the sort of birds we are looking for for the future long distance races if fit and well should complete these races ok. I’m not worried about how long they take or even if they night out. I am happy if they only have a couple of races as yearlings just for experience. I don’t think yearlings want to go any further than 350 miles. Some people do send yearlings to the longer races and get the odd ones putting up good performances but that is alright if you have a lot of pigeons and a well established team, but I think they will only put in these performances as yearlings and then be finished. The yearling stage is where I like to sort out the ones for the future and think that any left at the end of the season are worth keeping.
Old birds: Having hopefully come through the first couple of years of their life now is the time for them to show what they are capable of. I would hope to get 2 or 3 good build up races for them before being sent to their main race for that season. By now they should be well matured but also fresh as they wouldn’t have had that much racing prior. A good 500 miler as two year olds should be enough then anything after that. I would hope to then get another 3 or 4 seasons out of them after that.
As far as working youngsters is concerned with what we have been discussing in other topics I had an interesting conversation with a customer during the week. She has a hydrotherapy unit for dogs and reckons that she is seeing a lot of dogs coming in with back or muscle problems. She says that most of the problem is caused by dogs being over exercised as puppies before being mature. She says that a rule of thumb is that 5 minutes per month of age is ample. So for a 8 week old puppy 10 minutes per day is enough. 15 minutes per day at 3 months, 20 minutes at 4 months and so on. If over exercised to much before the bones and muscles have matured permanent damage can be caused.
So my idea is that a slow build up and being left to mature is the way forward to achieve our goal. A lot of pigeons aren’t going to make the grade as not many are capable of competing in these marathon races but I hope to give them every chance when they get to go.
Young birds, yearlings and old birds.
Best of luck with your program ,,so let say you fly the long ones at 3 or 4 year olds ,how old will be the parents & grandparents ,& where will they be ?if wanting to recreate the same ,the other problem I see ,how many of the birds you carrier for the 3 or 4 years turn out ok ,I know this is the way over there at this stage , look back to the 50s up to,the 70s lots of YBs did the job ,so you got a result straight up ,only my thoughts ,breed from the strongest,
That's a very good piece, Andy, and is food for thought.
I can see where you are heading with your plan, and I would have agreed with it not very long ago, Now, I am not so sure.
One night many years ago I was at the marking for the young bird National in New Zealand. The race was 300 miles and they had to cross the water between the islands. I said to an old bloke that I thought it was a bit tough on young birds. He told me to stop being stupid. He reckoned that young birds at the end of the season, when they were nearly yearlings, were as good as they were ever going to get. I was not convinced then, but I remembered it.
Some years later I had a bit of success with widowhood cocks. They were raced sprinting and up to 300 miles as yearlings and 2 and 3 year olds. As 4 year olds I sent them to the long races, and, got thrashed. By yearlings and 2 year olds. My old blokes just were not fast enough any more.
Here in Australia it has taken a decade to adjust. But I have. I have a hen that strayed in a couple of years ago. She flew 600 miles as a young bird, was in the clock from 600 miles as a yearling and was in a 600 mile race as a 2 year old when she arrived at my place.
My view is, whether they are raced as younger pigeons or left to mature is up to the owner. I don't think it makes much difference. The Aussies prove that a 12 month old pigeon is totally capable of winning long races. And, going back and repeating it.
I think racing pigeons are evolving. I have a team of young birds, 8, 9, and 10 months old. They look and behave like adult pigeons. Very mature. I am not certain much would be gained by keeping them for another year. The ones that are not good enough would still be not good enough.
And there's only one way to find out.
I can see where you are heading with your plan, and I would have agreed with it not very long ago, Now, I am not so sure.
One night many years ago I was at the marking for the young bird National in New Zealand. The race was 300 miles and they had to cross the water between the islands. I said to an old bloke that I thought it was a bit tough on young birds. He told me to stop being stupid. He reckoned that young birds at the end of the season, when they were nearly yearlings, were as good as they were ever going to get. I was not convinced then, but I remembered it.
Some years later I had a bit of success with widowhood cocks. They were raced sprinting and up to 300 miles as yearlings and 2 and 3 year olds. As 4 year olds I sent them to the long races, and, got thrashed. By yearlings and 2 year olds. My old blokes just were not fast enough any more.
Here in Australia it has taken a decade to adjust. But I have. I have a hen that strayed in a couple of years ago. She flew 600 miles as a young bird, was in the clock from 600 miles as a yearling and was in a 600 mile race as a 2 year old when she arrived at my place.
My view is, whether they are raced as younger pigeons or left to mature is up to the owner. I don't think it makes much difference. The Aussies prove that a 12 month old pigeon is totally capable of winning long races. And, going back and repeating it.
I think racing pigeons are evolving. I have a team of young birds, 8, 9, and 10 months old. They look and behave like adult pigeons. Very mature. I am not certain much would be gained by keeping them for another year. The ones that are not good enough would still be not good enough.
And there's only one way to find out.
Greetings from the land down under. 
I would just like to say ,there are many J B s not capable of flying the long ones ,& it wouldn’t matter if you kepted then to 10 year olds ,same result ,it’s working with the right birds ,time doesn’t turn them into champions ,I believe to many short races will wreaking the blood ,it’s only the very best ,that should be bred from ,
True that, Killer,
In that respect they are like race horses. The good ones are nearly always good ones from day one. And the poor ones are still going around in maiden races at mid week meetings when they are 4 years old.
I agree, time doesn't turn them into champions, and the right type of pigeon is needed for distance racing.
In that respect they are like race horses. The good ones are nearly always good ones from day one. And the poor ones are still going around in maiden races at mid week meetings when they are 4 years old.
I agree, time doesn't turn them into champions, and the right type of pigeon is needed for distance racing.
Greetings from the land down under.
Some good and interesting points there, very thought provoking, I know over here people do tend to do slow and steady for the longer races and as Andy says let them mature over the years only thing I do think they need is training as babies although this is difficult for Andy as having no club races which is where they would learn the trade at shorter distances
Some interesting replies.
I agree with Killer over the breeding side. It is a long time to prove whether birds are breeding the goods or not although you can still get an idea of how their offspring are doing earlier than actually going to the longest races. It will certainly be nice when I have proven birds to found a family on.
If you look at the national results there aren’t actually that many yearlings in the results. From the longest races there are often 6,7+ year old pigeons in the result. Yearlings aren’t allowed to be entered in the Barcelona international.
Yesterday the BICC, BBC & CSCFC sent to Lerwick convoyed by the NRCC. The distances would be from around 400 miles to 650 miles. The 1079 birds were liberated at 5.30am into a fresh SSE wind turning SW. There were no birds recorded on the day. There has been one recorded so far this morning at 6.27am at 420 miles on the East coast doing 668ypm. This is a 2 year old. A very hard race.
I agree with Killer over the breeding side. It is a long time to prove whether birds are breeding the goods or not although you can still get an idea of how their offspring are doing earlier than actually going to the longest races. It will certainly be nice when I have proven birds to found a family on.
If you look at the national results there aren’t actually that many yearlings in the results. From the longest races there are often 6,7+ year old pigeons in the result. Yearlings aren’t allowed to be entered in the Barcelona international.
Yesterday the BICC, BBC & CSCFC sent to Lerwick convoyed by the NRCC. The distances would be from around 400 miles to 650 miles. The 1079 birds were liberated at 5.30am into a fresh SSE wind turning SW. There were no birds recorded on the day. There has been one recorded so far this morning at 6.27am at 420 miles on the East coast doing 668ypm. This is a 2 year old. A very hard race.
Back just enjoying club racing for the time being.
A very hard race indeed ,when in Roman ,I can see why ,but it’s nothing wrong in being different now if you all flew fantails same thing ,you have to get a result , the other problem if your race birds are older & do the job no reason to think they will bred on & the parents & grandparents are long gone & did projuice ,,what a waste ,
I fully agree with what your saying Killer. I do bred from yearlings and keep very few stock birds. If I’ve lost the parents of a top distance pigeon that’s a shame but nothing I can do about that.killer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:22 am A very hard race indeed ,when in Roman ,I can see why ,but it’s nothing wrong in being different now if you all flew fantails same thing ,you have to get a result , the other problem if your race birds are older & do the job no reason to think they will bred on & the parents & grandparents are long gone & did projuice ,,what a waste ,
Back just enjoying club racing for the time being.
And I did note that one of Andy's aims is to have pigeons that compete for some years and not be blown out in one or two. To that end, he is not over racing the youngsters and yearlings.
That seems like good idea, until you realize that in most lofts at the end of every season, sadly, a large proportion of the old birds are gone. Which is why we need to breed so many young birds every year. Just like the racehorses again, after 5 or 6 seasons, there may be 1% of the youngsters that were bred in those years left.
They are generally not top class, or worth breeding from, they are just tough. The sort of horse, or pigeon, that always has a go and earns it's corn.
In the mean time, something half the age has it's owner's name in the paper for winning a National.
If you were to list the old birds in The Test loft from even two years ago, it would be a short list.
You may have got my point. I no longer think old pigeons are the way forward. If they have not achieved something worthwhile by the end of their second season, I doubt that they will.
That's just my observations. Please feel free to disregard them.
That seems like good idea, until you realize that in most lofts at the end of every season, sadly, a large proportion of the old birds are gone. Which is why we need to breed so many young birds every year. Just like the racehorses again, after 5 or 6 seasons, there may be 1% of the youngsters that were bred in those years left.
They are generally not top class, or worth breeding from, they are just tough. The sort of horse, or pigeon, that always has a go and earns it's corn.
In the mean time, something half the age has it's owner's name in the paper for winning a National.
If you were to list the old birds in The Test loft from even two years ago, it would be a short list.
You may have got my point. I no longer think old pigeons are the way forward. If they have not achieved something worthwhile by the end of their second season, I doubt that they will.
That's just my observations. Please feel free to disregard them.
Greetings from the land down under.