UkPigeonRacing

Morning gents.
Is it possible for a red cheq with quite heavy black splashes to be a hen?

Diamond Dave wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 10:18 am Morning gents.
Is it possible for a red cheq with quite heavy black splashes to be a hen?

I get red hens with dark brown in them but black are normally cocks and they get more black each season as they get older.

This is a yb Ant, it is out of a very heavily black splashed red cheq cock.
I had it nailed on as a cock but it has paired with another definate cock and they have taken a box together and the defo cock is now driving it.
Havent seen them tread yet so is it possible they are a pair of gay cocks... would they go to the extent of going to nest together?

Diamond Dave wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 10:46 am This is a yb Ant, it is out of a very heavily black splashed red cheq cock.
I had it nailed on as a cock but it has paired with another definate cock and they have taken a box together and the defo cock is now driving it.
Havent seen them tread yet so is it possible they are a pair of gay cocks... would they go to the extent of going to nest together?

If it lays its a hen if not you have Elton n David in same box pal lol

Diamond Dave wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 10:18 am Morning gents.
Is it possible for a red cheq with quite heavy black splashes to be a hen?

Whilst red hens normally have brown splashes, I've spoken with fanciers with more knowledge of genetics than me and they say having black splashes is not impossible but very rare.
Below is from a genetic expert.

All plumage color found in our pigeons is produced from one of two melanic pigments. These two forms of melanic pigments are eumelanin and phaeomelanin.
In the production of these two melanins it is the biochemical process which decides if you get eumelanin or phaeomelanin pigment and this outcome is dependent on an activity ratio between tyrosinase and tyrosine. A higher ratio of tyrosinase in the biochemical process results in eumelanin being produced, while a lower ratio gives phaeomelanin. In other words, if you increase the amounts of tyrosinase you end up with brown or blue/black eumelanin pigment; while, an increase in tyrosine results in red phaeomelanin pigment. The thing that decides if eumelanin will result in either a brown or a black pigment depends upon the completeness of the oxidation process. When this process is incomplete, eumelanin results in brown pigment while a more complete oxidation process yields black pigment. On the other hand, phaeomelanin is a reddish brown pigment and it is from this pigment, that our birds get their red color. Diluted forms of brown eumelanin becomes a khaki color; diluted black eumelanin yields a silver dun color; while diluted phaeomelanin gives us our golden yellows. Therefore the three basic color forms we have are brown, blue/black which is the normal wild type and ash red. It is the ash red pigment color that is the most dominant of the three and ash red is the color form which we will discuss here.

Ash red or dominant red (as it is sometimes referred to) is a sex-linked mutation, with the genetic symbol BA. It can be found in many varied phenotypes from the normal ash red patterns of barless, bar, checker and t-pattern velvet to any number of combinations with other mutants such as dilute, pale, reduced, rubella, grizzle, spread, indigo etc just to name a few. Each of these combinations will differ in some color form, yet genetically their base color remains.

Having said that, I must point out that our pigeons are not just one form of melamic pigment or the other, rather they are combination that is predominantly one form or the other. In other words, studies show that varying amounts of both eumelanin and phaeomelanin will exist jointly in our birds feathers. Black and brown will be predominantly eumelanin with small amounts of phaeomelanin, while ash red will be predominately phaeomelanin with small amounts of eumelanin present. This explains why some blues will have bronze showing in their otherwise blue/black feathers; or why some ash reds will have black ink spots.. In the case of many ash red cocks, these ink spots often points to their being heterozygous for both blue/black and ash red. However their presence being found on some hens cannot be explained by a heterozygous condition since these hens are never heterozygous for basic color. In their case, and in the case of some cocks, these small amounts of black are the result of other factors in the pigment production process; mainly the availability or ratio of tyrosinase / tyrosine within the cel

I’m with Anthony on this one

Brilliant King - thanks for taking the trouble to post all that.!
Im sorry to say that my little brain cant take all that in!
It is definately the black splashes and Im looking more and more towards a hen, especially as it is now 'covering the nest.' I would never have thought it but I guess nature follows its own rules, I still wont believe it until it actually lays but Im certainly not going to argue with thr guy who wrote that piece.
Can anyone just remind me how to post pictures and Ill put a couple up...

Diamond Dave wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 2:20 pm Brilliant King - thanks for taking the trouble to post all that.!
Im sorry to say that my little brain cant take all that in!
It is definately the black splashes and Im looking more and more towards a hen, especially as it is now 'covering the nest.' I would never have thought it but I guess nature follows its own rules, I still wont believe it until it actually lays but Im certainly not going to argue with thr guy who wrote that piece.
Can anyone just remind me how to post pictures and Ill put a couple up...

What I didn't ask you Dave is, what colour are it's parents? If it is a hen it's sire must be a Red.

king wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 2:32 pm

Diamond Dave wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 2:20 pm Brilliant King - thanks for taking the trouble to post all that.!
Im sorry to say that my little brain cant take all that in!
It is definately the black splashes and Im looking more and more towards a hen, especially as it is now 'covering the nest.' I would never have thought it but I guess nature follows its own rules, I still wont believe it until it actually lays but Im certainly not going to argue with thr guy who wrote that piece.
Can anyone just remind me how to post pictures and Ill put a couple up...

What I didn't ask you Dave is, what colour are it's parents? If it is a hen it's sire must be a Red.

Yes King the sire is a very heavily splashed red cock and the dam is a black n white gay pied - does that make it a hen anyway despite the black splashes?

You have to go to the main reply not the quick reply
The press Attachment and then Files your photo library should drop down that’s from memory
[/quote]

Thanks Niel - go to " post reply" click attachments, select images, choose photos press select - keeps coming up "error" ???