Amino acids.

[NeilA]

Well done on your recent win Neil. Can I asked why you thought 1200 was a hard race? Back in the 80s many races were 900-1200 and we never ever classed a 1200 race as hard? Even 900 -1000 many just called them slow as returns were often very good.

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

My dad Neil I can't talk pigeons two he goes on n on about the old kirk Patrick's Marsden flints krauths n all them old strains - they was good 40,50 year ago but I see my dad put same effort as me in and win very little done OK on a tough channel race,
He says I'm two strict n should chill out but ya either a winner or ya making numbers on,
Unless it's really tough I pull ets out with in 1 min of first bird I'm not interested in birds fly further than 1 mile behind the leaders,, so when lads are beat by 3 n 4 mins there birds are 3 to 4 miles slower u keep these pigeons 3 yrs n breed of em you have a team of slow racers mainly homers, who's kidding who.
Fanicers are very soft with there birds now one thing in belg because they put lots of money on there birds the homers are straght in deep freeze because iv not met a Belgium flyer who don't eat pigeon they love em.

Exactly
I do similar first 6 birds are recorded and get points with wind info and if in the first 2 per cent of the convoy etc after that they are forgotten they get zero points in my book
It very easy to have rose tinted glasses at the end of the season . The first week after the old bird season my selection is done I never wait to ybs and fill box’s with old ones because I’m short of cocks a couple of years of that lark and your on the road to keeping homers

[king]

There are lots of supplements so what works or what doesn’t is hard to judge
Maybe they all benefit different fanciers birds and are part of the individual lofts routine that makes them successful and if they used different supplement's they may not be as successful but they may work in another loft under different management or conditions
My pigeons had a hard race yesterday 1200 ypm I used two products in the water for return . I used another on the corn . Tonight I gave them the same on the corn and one I buy from a health shop with it
I think my pigeons have recovered well and after a day off I hope to see them flying well tomorrow night
Would they recover the same ? I dont know but they look ok tonight

Well done on your recent win Neil. Can I asked why you thought 1200 was a hard race? Back in the 80s many races were 900-1200 and we never ever classed a 1200 race as hard? Even 900 -1000 many just called them slow as returns were often very good.

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

When we raced in the 70s & 80s we didn't want 900ypm either. The average in a season was 1300. We could have a 1700 race one week and 1000 the following week. Your right that a lot has changed since those days, but one thing has not. There were still good birds back then. The vast majority were not homers. My best pigeon from the 80s a blue w/f hen had prize cards from 900 to 1760. As a yearling she flew the channel 3 times 1400, 900 and the last time she wasn't clocked but was on the day 14hrs+. I had another hen who was 2nd club on 900 in a snow blizzard she had cards in fast races too.
I only asked you the question because you called the race hard? I used to see posts on pigeon chat that called races 'smashes' when the velocity dropped below 1000. One thing I've learnt in 50 years is 'good' pigeons win races of all velocities. Homers often only win total disasters. A slow race is not always bad, hard or a smash.

[Andy]

I agree King. For some reason people seem to think that modern pigeons are superior but I don’t think they are any different. The big difference now is that fanciers seem to want blow homes in ideal conditions.

[Andy]

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

My dad Neil I can't talk pigeons two he goes on n on about the old kirk Patrick's Marsden flints krauths n all them old strains - they was good 40,50 year ago but I see my dad put same effort as me in and win very little done OK on a tough channel race,
He says I'm two strict n should chill out but ya either a winner or ya making numbers on,
Unless it's really tough I pull ets out with in 1 min of first bird I'm not interested in birds fly further than 1 mile behind the leaders,, so when lads are beat by 3 n 4 mins there birds are 3 to 4 miles slower u keep these pigeons 3 yrs n breed of em you have a team of slow racers mainly homers, who's kidding who.
Fanicers are very soft with there birds now one thing in belg because they put lots of money on there birds the homers are straght in deep freeze because iv not met a Belgium flyer who don't eat pigeon they love em.

Exactly
I do similar first 6 birds are recorded and get points with wind info and if in the first 2 per cent of the convoy etc after that they are forgotten they get zero points in my book
It very easy to have rose tinted glasses at the end of the season . The first week after the old bird season my selection is done I never wait to ybs and fill box’s with old ones because I’m short of cocks a couple of years of that lark and your on the road to keeping homers

Whilst I understand your logic I don’t how it can be said that a pigeon coming later than another is slower!! Unlike most other forms of racing where they cover the same route and can be seen from start to finish we have no idea on where our pigeons have been. Unless corridor flying the birds could take different routes home. The pigeons coming later could have been flying just as fast as the winners but flown a lot more miles. That’s without the dangers they may have encountered. I also appreciate that you can only judge a pigeon over a number of races and a season and not just a couple of races.
I also think it is very difficult to judge a pigeon as a young bird. How often do we have where our best youngster is then lost from a short old bird race. My best youngster last year was first bird 3 times and second bird twice from 8 races. He is missing from 34 miles from last weekends race.

[Devo1956]

I feel myself, times have changed a long way. Nutrition is much different now, and different systems of racing. Its all about knowing your birds,, and how they perform in different races. Knowing how to feed is the main thing in the sport today. Also finding very good racing pigeons.

[NeilA]

Well done on your recent win Neil. Can I asked why you thought 1200 was a hard race? Back in the 80s many races were 900-1200 and we never ever classed a 1200 race as hard? Even 900 -1000 many just called them slow as returns were often very good.

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

When we raced in the 70s & 80s we didn't want 900ypm either. The average in a season was 1300. We could have a 1700 race one week and 1000 the following week. Your right that a lot has changed since those days, but one thing has not. There were still good birds back then. The vast majority were not homers. My best pigeon from the 80s a blue w/f hen had prize cards from 900 to 1760. As a yearling she flew the channel 3 times 1400, 900 and the last time she wasn't clocked but was on the day 14hrs+. I had another hen who was 2nd club on 900 in a snow blizzard she had cards in fast races too.
I only asked you the question because you called the race hard? I used to see posts on pigeon chat that called races 'smashes' when the velocity dropped below 1000. One thing I've learnt in 50 years is 'good' pigeons win races of all velocities. Homers often only win total disasters. A slow race is not always bad, hard or a smash.

Make easy for you king
Your birds in the 80’s are better than any other pigeons I have ever heard about and mine are total crap paper bags that could never win in your era of dominance
will that do for you ? Now I don’t have to keep reading how modern birds are crap

I must add congratulations on your 2nd club in the snow I could only dream of that performance or a hen flying a very very long way 3 times

Been nice if you had used the congratulations topic that you read to post your congratulations on rather than another topic with yet another motive behind it

[NeilA]

I feel myself, times have changed a long way. Nutrition is much different now, and different systems of racing. Its all about knowing your birds,, and how they perform in different races. Knowing how to feed is the main thing in the sport today. Also finding very good racing pigeons.

Excellent post

[NeilA]

My dad Neil I can't talk pigeons two he goes on n on about the old kirk Patrick's Marsden flints krauths n all them old strains - they was good 40,50 year ago but I see my dad put same effort as me in and win very little done OK on a tough channel race,
He says I'm two strict n should chill out but ya either a winner or ya making numbers on,
Unless it's really tough I pull ets out with in 1 min of first bird I'm not interested in birds fly further than 1 mile behind the leaders,, so when lads are beat by 3 n 4 mins there birds are 3 to 4 miles slower u keep these pigeons 3 yrs n breed of em you have a team of slow racers mainly homers, who's kidding who.
Fanicers are very soft with there birds now one thing in belg because they put lots of money on there birds the homers are straght in deep freeze because iv not met a Belgium flyer who don't eat pigeon they love em.

Exactly
I do similar first 6 birds are recorded and get points with wind info and if in the first 2 per cent of the convoy etc after that they are forgotten they get zero points in my book
It very easy to have rose tinted glasses at the end of the season . The first week after the old bird season my selection is done I never wait to ybs and fill box’s with old ones because I’m short of cocks a couple of years of that lark and your on the road to keeping homers

Whilst I understand your logic I don’t how it can be said that a pigeon coming later than another is slower!! Unlike most other forms of racing where they cover the same route and can be seen from start to finish we have no idea on where our pigeons have been. Unless corridor flying the birds could take different routes home. The pigeons coming later could have been flying just as fast as the winners but flown a lot more miles. That’s without the dangers they may have encountered. I also appreciate that you can only judge a pigeon over a number of races and a season and not just a couple of races.
I also think it is very difficult to judge a pigeon as a young bird. How often do we have where our best youngster is then lost from a short old bird race. My best youngster last year was first bird 3 times and second bird twice from 8 races. He is missing from 34 miles from last weekends race.

If it’s not slower then it’s thicker maybe or not motivated what ever way there beat

I admit I don’t judge ybs so much although any thick or very slow go here
Yearlings are removed at the end of the old bird season I don’t want any time to think I’m low on cocks I will give that yearling another go I want that option removed from my thinking so I don’t get soft
for racing to 250/300 they are not going to quicker , say a 2 year old that scores 3 times in the fed is very rare if it’s not carded before ( I know king will have one from 1975 probably)
If you have a yearling not been in the top 3 per cent 2/3 times I wouldn’t be keeping it I would use it’s box for a young cock or have it empty that way you surround yourself with good reliable birds and then it’s just accidents or the peregrine that can get to you .
Like Anthony had said you don’t keep pets if the aim is to win and he’s ruthless in his approach and methods
I talk to Mike a fair bit and always listen to Shane Langton two fantastic fanciers and I am very lucky to speak to a past London great in the Ling brothers every day or so and all have put it in my head you have to be strict and select hard

[king]

Because I live in 2024 and 1200yom is a working day now for pigeons although I have always considered it to be
maybe hard is the wrong word but my later pigeons would have been in a strong headwind for some time plus it’s there 2nd race so not match fit yet last week we had 2100yon race to me that’s a fast race but i guess they were 4000 ypm per min in the 50’s on the weeks they were not 900 ypm
We have fanciers here that love and dream of a 900 ypm race but don’t realise they have created a loft of homers and they don’t understand unless it a wet dirty day they will never see a card so they live for one day a year rather than finding better pigeons and systems
I remember the late &0’s/90’s with pigeons king I had pigeons as young boy and then worked helping some very good fanciers when I left school before I packed up for 20 years odd years .I don’t remember many fed races down below a 1000 yards as a regular thing and if they were people were not happy . I think when the guy I worked for and who encouraged me won his 2nd car it was a 1800 day so there were fast days

When we raced in the 70s & 80s we didn't want 900ypm either. The average in a season was 1300. We could have a 1700 race one week and 1000 the following week. Your right that a lot has changed since those days, but one thing has not. There were still good birds back then. The vast majority were not homers. My best pigeon from the 80s a blue w/f hen had prize cards from 900 to 1760. As a yearling she flew the channel 3 times 1400, 900 and the last time she wasn't clocked but was on the day 14hrs+. I had another hen who was 2nd club on 900 in a snow blizzard she had cards in fast races too.
I only asked you the question because you called the race hard? I used to see posts on pigeon chat that called races 'smashes' when the velocity dropped below 1000. One thing I've learnt in 50 years is 'good' pigeons win races of all velocities. Homers often only win total disasters. A slow race is not always bad, hard or a smash.

Make easy for you king
Your birds in the 80’s are better than any other pigeons I have ever heard about and mine are total crap paper bags that could never win in your era of dominance
will that do for you ? Now I don’t have to keep reading how modern birds are crap

I must add congratulations on your 2nd club in the snow I could only dream of that performance or a hen flying a very very long way 3 times

Been nice if you had used the congratulations topic that you read to post your congratulations on rather than another topic with yet another motive behind it

Neil. Your missing the point I was trying to make. I had no motive behind my post. You should know that from pigeon chat. I only ask questions. Had you not used the word 'hard' in the post I would never had even asked the question, even you said it was the wrong word to use. I used the 2 birds of mine to show that winning birds don't become homers even when the races are slow. The hen that flew the channel 3 times as a yearling, never flew it again, she did win 17 cards from just 34 races though. The slow hen in the snow went on to win around 12 cards. Both were used as examples of birds that did not become homers despite racing on slow days. As for the congratulations on winning, I never did it on chat unless I actually knew the fancier in question. I congratulated you on the this tread because my question related to the race you had just won. It was as simple as that.
My birds in the 80s were no better than many in the 80s but they were as good as some when it mattered. And I still believe the best birds back in the 80s were just as good as those racing today. No pigeon will ever fly faster than the weather on the day allows, be it 900, 1200 or 2000. Enjoy your racing.

[Andy]

I’m not disagreeing with you Neil. I used to be much harder on mine than I am now but since coming back into the sport and having my own business to run I haven’t really had the same amount of time. Also as said before when I restarted aiming at the distance but have this past couple of years gone back to club racing, sprint racing which is also why I have gone back to widowhood. At the moment I am mainly using the same pigeons but know I need to be harder on them. Our longest race in the West of England South Road Combine is only 118 miles for me. We have 7 races at 34 miles, ridiculous I know. Hopefully we are going to go with the new Three Countries which will at least go up to 168 miles. I used to have my widowers winning from 90 miles to 350 miles, same pigeons. The other trouble with our combine is the fan of the combine which is over 75 miles South to North and the wind plays a big part on which route they take. It would be difficult for a pigeon to break from 1,500 birds on its own when the race is only 34 miles. Last week they circled at the race point for 3/4 minutes before clearing. That’s me finished before it’s begun from such a short race. One of our club members flies 57 miles from the same race point.