For flying to 200 miles what would be more important fats or carbs on a normal racing day say 1450ypm
Do you feed fats and If so when during the week and at what percentage of the mix
How do you know when carbs are used I have heard so many different answers on this from 1/2 fly to 4 hour
Can fats be used as a energy instantly or do they take 48 or more hours to convert from stored fat to energy so pointless if fed Thursday night / Friday
Be interested in views on this as I have never really found a definitive answer
Fats / carbs
This is an interesting topic, because it is an opportunity to look at the trend towards feeding one mixture every day of the week to every pigeon.
This is not a new thing. Jos. Van Limpt 'De Klak' always bought the same grain mixture and every pigeon ate it every day. And how great was De Klak?
When I was racing widowhood in NZ years ago I used to faff around with depuritive and building them up.............
Waste of time.
For some years I have fed my "regular mix" to everything every day. It is nothing special to look at. It's got some of everything. Not too many legumes.
With nest babies they get a pot of peas. If it's minus mumble degrees they get a handful of maize. It's just common sense.
The point is, the race pigeons, eat that mixture every day of their lives. The digestive system is used to it so they have no upsets. The metabolism is used to it so the energy levels aren't up and down.
For any distance from a 10 mile training toss to a 300 mile race, if you have a good mixture with a balance of carbs and fats, and importantly, bugger all legumes, you are on safe ground.
If "fairly good" flyers like Jos Thone" are moving to a one mix diet, that's good enough for me.
Racehorses get the same diet every day, whether they are going 6 furlongs or 3 miles. Think about it.......
This is not a new thing. Jos. Van Limpt 'De Klak' always bought the same grain mixture and every pigeon ate it every day. And how great was De Klak?
When I was racing widowhood in NZ years ago I used to faff around with depuritive and building them up.............
Waste of time.
For some years I have fed my "regular mix" to everything every day. It is nothing special to look at. It's got some of everything. Not too many legumes.
With nest babies they get a pot of peas. If it's minus mumble degrees they get a handful of maize. It's just common sense.
The point is, the race pigeons, eat that mixture every day of their lives. The digestive system is used to it so they have no upsets. The metabolism is used to it so the energy levels aren't up and down.
For any distance from a 10 mile training toss to a 300 mile race, if you have a good mixture with a balance of carbs and fats, and importantly, bugger all legumes, you are on safe ground.
If "fairly good" flyers like Jos Thone" are moving to a one mix diet, that's good enough for me.
Racehorses get the same diet every day, whether they are going 6 furlongs or 3 miles. Think about it.......
Greetings from the land down under. 
Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for verily, he shall not be disappointed.
Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for verily, he shall not be disappointed.
Would the fats / carbs ratio not change in your mix from sat inthe loft sunday to preparing for a 250 mile head wind on Wednesday/ ThursdayMurray wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:34 am This is an interesting topic, because it is an opportunity to look at the trend towards feeding one mixture every day of the week to every pigeon.
This is not a new thing. Jos. Van Limpt 'De Klak' always bought the same grain mixture and every pigeon ate it every day. And how great was De Klak?
When I was racing widowhood in NZ years ago I used to faff around with depuritive and building them up.............
Waste of time.
For some years I have fed my "regular mix" to everything every day. It is nothing special to look at. It's got some of everything. Not too many legumes.
With nest babies they get a pot of peas. If it's minus mumble degrees they get a handful of maize. It's just common sense.
The point is, the race pigeons, eat that mixture every day of their lives. The digestive system is used to it so they have no upsets. The metabolism is used to it so the energy levels aren't up and down.
For any distance from a 10 mile training toss to a 300 mile race, if you have a good mixture with a balance of carbs and fats, and importantly, bugger all legumes, you are on safe ground.
If "fairly good" flyers like Jos Thone" are moving to a one mix diet, that's good enough for me.
Racehorses get the same diet every day, whether they are going 6 furlongs or 3 miles. Think about it.......
I hope this helps.
The carbohydrates
Carbohydrates are a major source of fuel for the body; they regulate the body temperature and provide energy. You might assume that our long distance racers need a lot of carbohydrates, and you are correct, but proteins and fats can act as a fuel as well. Excess carbohydrates can be stored in the form of fats in the body, which is an important thing to know.
We distinguish two types of carbohydrates: the soluble and easily digestible carbohydrates such as sugar and starch and the carbohydrates that are harder to digest, such as cellulose. With the help of bacteria, cattle, sheep and horses are capable of digesting a part of this cellulose material, but birds cannot digest it as their large intestine is not long enough.
The percentage of carbohydrates in nutrition: Barley 68% — corn 71% — wheat 67% — peas 59 — beans 49 — beer yeast 40% - vetch 50% - sunflower 16% - linseed 24% - hemp seed 20% - rapeseed and coleseed 16%.
The fats
Just like carbohydrates, the fats in the diet are a source of energy, but they deliver twice as much energy as the carbohydrates. That is why they are particularly interesting for long distance racers but rather unfavourable for sprint racers: long distance racers can carry some extra fats just like youngsters that are about to do long distance races. Another important function is the resorption of vitamins, especially in the absorption of vitamin A, D and E and Calcium.
The fats that can be mainly found in seeds and in oilseeds are the so-called tryglicerides or oils; they are easily and entirely digestible and usable by animals. These fats are far more important to birds than to mammals: it is now considered a fact that pigeons mainly use fats as a fuel for their chest muscles in longer races. This in contrast to mammals, which use mainly sugar as a source of energy for their muscles. Besides, a race horse for instance uses its muscles for a much shorter time compared to long distance racing pigeons or migratory birds. Before a race, a race horse should not have too much fat, but its liver and blood are saturated with sugars. But for a pigeon, sugars are not interesting for longer efforts such as a long distance race, as sugar can only provide energy for short, powerful and quick efforts. But that is what makes sugar interesting for sprint racers of course. For them, it would be good to add four sugar cubes to one liter of drinking water. We usually give middle distance racers some white seed as a desert, or some candy to get them back home after training.
During a sustained effort, a pigeon is said to get 70 to 80% of its energy from the oxidation of fats, and the heart is mostly fuelled with fats as well. Research with an electron microscope has showed that the muscle fibers of a pigeon contain numerous fat particles of various dimensions. Tests have demonstrated that pigeons with a diet rich in fat and low in sugar performed better in long races than pigeons that were given much sugar and few fats. Young pigeons seemed to grow better with a diet rich in fat. This should not be a surprise: crop milk does not contain sugar but is rich in fat. The importance of proteins and fats is also evidenced in the composition of a pigeon’s body, which consists for 60% of water, for 25% of proteins and for 15% of fats.
What follows is an indication of the amount of fats in grains, legumes and seeds: Barley 2% - corn 3.5% - wheat 2% - peas l% - beans 1.4% - beer yeast 0.4% - vetch 0.8% - sunflower 41.4% - linseed 35.9% - hemp seed 32.3% - rapeseed and coleseed 43.6%.
Sprint racers do not need additinal fats because the normal amount of fats in their body is sufficient for a one-hour race at top-spee
The carbohydrates
Carbohydrates are a major source of fuel for the body; they regulate the body temperature and provide energy. You might assume that our long distance racers need a lot of carbohydrates, and you are correct, but proteins and fats can act as a fuel as well. Excess carbohydrates can be stored in the form of fats in the body, which is an important thing to know.
We distinguish two types of carbohydrates: the soluble and easily digestible carbohydrates such as sugar and starch and the carbohydrates that are harder to digest, such as cellulose. With the help of bacteria, cattle, sheep and horses are capable of digesting a part of this cellulose material, but birds cannot digest it as their large intestine is not long enough.
The percentage of carbohydrates in nutrition: Barley 68% — corn 71% — wheat 67% — peas 59 — beans 49 — beer yeast 40% - vetch 50% - sunflower 16% - linseed 24% - hemp seed 20% - rapeseed and coleseed 16%.
The fats
Just like carbohydrates, the fats in the diet are a source of energy, but they deliver twice as much energy as the carbohydrates. That is why they are particularly interesting for long distance racers but rather unfavourable for sprint racers: long distance racers can carry some extra fats just like youngsters that are about to do long distance races. Another important function is the resorption of vitamins, especially in the absorption of vitamin A, D and E and Calcium.
The fats that can be mainly found in seeds and in oilseeds are the so-called tryglicerides or oils; they are easily and entirely digestible and usable by animals. These fats are far more important to birds than to mammals: it is now considered a fact that pigeons mainly use fats as a fuel for their chest muscles in longer races. This in contrast to mammals, which use mainly sugar as a source of energy for their muscles. Besides, a race horse for instance uses its muscles for a much shorter time compared to long distance racing pigeons or migratory birds. Before a race, a race horse should not have too much fat, but its liver and blood are saturated with sugars. But for a pigeon, sugars are not interesting for longer efforts such as a long distance race, as sugar can only provide energy for short, powerful and quick efforts. But that is what makes sugar interesting for sprint racers of course. For them, it would be good to add four sugar cubes to one liter of drinking water. We usually give middle distance racers some white seed as a desert, or some candy to get them back home after training.
During a sustained effort, a pigeon is said to get 70 to 80% of its energy from the oxidation of fats, and the heart is mostly fuelled with fats as well. Research with an electron microscope has showed that the muscle fibers of a pigeon contain numerous fat particles of various dimensions. Tests have demonstrated that pigeons with a diet rich in fat and low in sugar performed better in long races than pigeons that were given much sugar and few fats. Young pigeons seemed to grow better with a diet rich in fat. This should not be a surprise: crop milk does not contain sugar but is rich in fat. The importance of proteins and fats is also evidenced in the composition of a pigeon’s body, which consists for 60% of water, for 25% of proteins and for 15% of fats.
What follows is an indication of the amount of fats in grains, legumes and seeds: Barley 2% - corn 3.5% - wheat 2% - peas l% - beans 1.4% - beer yeast 0.4% - vetch 0.8% - sunflower 41.4% - linseed 35.9% - hemp seed 32.3% - rapeseed and coleseed 43.6%.
Sprint racers do not need additinal fats because the normal amount of fats in their body is sufficient for a one-hour race at top-spee
Excellent info thank youDevo1956 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:02 am I hope this helps.
The carbohydrates
Carbohydrates are a major source of fuel for the body; they regulate the body temperature and provide energy. You might assume that our long distance racers need a lot of carbohydrates, and you are correct, but proteins and fats can act as a fuel as well. Excess carbohydrates can be stored in the form of fats in the body, which is an important thing to know.
We distinguish two types of carbohydrates: the soluble and easily digestible carbohydrates such as sugar and starch and the carbohydrates that are harder to digest, such as cellulose. With the help of bacteria, cattle, sheep and horses are capable of digesting a part of this cellulose material, but birds cannot digest it as their large intestine is not long enough.
The percentage of carbohydrates in nutrition: Barley 68% — corn 71% — wheat 67% — peas 59 — beans 49 — beer yeast 40% - vetch 50% - sunflower 16% - linseed 24% - hemp seed 20% - rapeseed and coleseed 16%.
The fats
Just like carbohydrates, the fats in the diet are a source of energy, but they deliver twice as much energy as the carbohydrates. That is why they are particularly interesting for long distance racers but rather unfavourable for sprint racers: long distance racers can carry some extra fats just like youngsters that are about to do long distance races. Another important function is the resorption of vitamins, especially in the absorption of vitamin A, D and E and Calcium.
The fats that can be mainly found in seeds and in oilseeds are the so-called tryglicerides or oils; they are easily and entirely digestible and usable by animals. These fats are far more important to birds than to mammals: it is now considered a fact that pigeons mainly use fats as a fuel for their chest muscles in longer races. This in contrast to mammals, which use mainly sugar as a source of energy for their muscles. Besides, a race horse for instance uses its muscles for a much shorter time compared to long distance racing pigeons or migratory birds. Before a race, a race horse should not have too much fat, but its liver and blood are saturated with sugars. But for a pigeon, sugars are not interesting for longer efforts such as a long distance race, as sugar can only provide energy for short, powerful and quick efforts. But that is what makes sugar interesting for sprint racers of course. For them, it would be good to add four sugar cubes to one liter of drinking water. We usually give middle distance racers some white seed as a desert, or some candy to get them back home after training.
During a sustained effort, a pigeon is said to get 70 to 80% of its energy from the oxidation of fats, and the heart is mostly fuelled with fats as well. Research with an electron microscope has showed that the muscle fibers of a pigeon contain numerous fat particles of various dimensions. Tests have demonstrated that pigeons with a diet rich in fat and low in sugar performed better in long races than pigeons that were given much sugar and few fats. Young pigeons seemed to grow better with a diet rich in fat. This should not be a surprise: crop milk does not contain sugar but is rich in fat. The importance of proteins and fats is also evidenced in the composition of a pigeon’s body, which consists for 60% of water, for 25% of proteins and for 15% of fats.
What follows is an indication of the amount of fats in grains, legumes and seeds: Barley 2% - corn 3.5% - wheat 2% - peas l% - beans 1.4% - beer yeast 0.4% - vetch 0.8% - sunflower 41.4% - linseed 35.9% - hemp seed 32.3% - rapeseed and coleseed 43.6%.
Sprint racers do not need additinal fats because the normal amount of fats in their body is sufficient for a one-hour race at top-spee
I have the basic understanding of the above but it the fine detail as my brain couldn’t take it in to be honest
So it still helps but doesn’t t answer my questions fully
Say 180 miles 12mph head wind now a hour or so is carbs only from reading the post but does that not change depending on wind direction and if we need fats how long do they take to turn from a food source to stored energy
Should we be feeding them Tuesday Wednesday then carbs Thursday or the other way around if it’s a week where we know carbs will be burnt out before the race time is completed
That’s kind of like I do but only 10-20per cent depending on wind
It’s just of late I started to think is Thursday night Friday morning to late
Should I do it Tuesday / Wednesday then just carb load Thursday
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Anthony webster
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:54 am
My opinion you struggle feeding hemp n hearts Friday another thing is sunflower hearts are so dodgy they cab turn in a second and make ya pigeons unwell,,
If you ever feed sunflower eat a piece first if ya lips go tingle then there off and will knock ya pigeons of form,,
This is only my opinion lads but iv never had a good race giving fats end of week I like fats on Tues n wens but I know 50 different good flyers n all 50 feed different,
One thing I like is hemp on these cold early races but not as it gets warm.
If you ever feed sunflower eat a piece first if ya lips go tingle then there off and will knock ya pigeons of form,,
This is only my opinion lads but iv never had a good race giving fats end of week I like fats on Tues n wens but I know 50 different good flyers n all 50 feed different,
One thing I like is hemp on these cold early races but not as it gets warm.
That’s interesting thanks for the info
I normally add then just Wednesday and Thursday