Fats

[goose1]

Combined average trophy winners was a massive thing for any organisation in the past wasn't it. I do think its a little sad its fell out of favour. Suppose with lots of lofts specialising in a certain discipline now it doesn't lend itself to averages. I know the neighbouring fed to us (worms fed) has a special trophy known locally as the big cup which is worth a lot of money and has a hell of a lot of history and prestige for their combined average winner. We actually applied to join their fed a couple of seasons ago and one of the main reasons was to try and win that cup. We'd have even raced a few youngsters just to.have a go at it

[goose1]

Combined average trophy winners was a massive thing for any organisation in the past wasn't it. I do think its a little sad its fell out of favour. Suppose with lots of lofts specialising in a certain discipline now it doesn't lend itself to averages. I know the neighbouring fed to us (worms fed) has a special trophy known locally as the big cup which is worth a lot of money and has a hell of a lot of history and prestige for their combined average winner. We actually applied to join their fed a couple of seasons ago and one of the main reasons was to try and win that cup. We'd have even raced a few youngsters just to.have a go at it

When I was much younger the averages were massive your right

It’s probably not the right topic to ask but would you one day or if time share with us how you go about educating your youngster’s and how much you train and race them with the middle to long races in mind

I think it's 4 years now we haven't entered a young bird in a race Neil. We actually won the last one we entered And they've been on natural since. First thing I'll say there's no way we'd be able to get the results you do with natural youngsters even if we were trying your in a different league to us mate. But regards training, we insist on training on our own we hate the training wagons, learns the pigeons nothing, for our game that is I totally get why the lads up here train in bulk but I really wish they'd come away from it I do think it would reduce the loses. We actually like when we get the bad tosses and their coming back all day it often makes them. Another thing I will say since we've left them on the natural our youngsters exercise fantastic and we can often be weaning some of these youngsters 2nd or 3rd week in May and they go to the first young bird race around 2nd week in July no problem at all. Training would be start at 10 miles and then in 7 tosses we'll be at just shy of 40 miles which is actually 3 miles further than our first race. Then racing wise we will have 34, 56, 70, and 90 mile races. And then their stopped. Our hen that won combine (2024) and beat all of the Scottish National from the same lib by nearly 20ypm 497 mile, 11hrs 27 mins was a yearling that followed that same training/racing as a youngster.

[goose1]

My pal races in Kent he's never raced north rd but think he's won 13 combines when combine was massive don't know how many amal few yrs bk won fed n amal 5 weeks running 5x 1st national from 200 to 568 miles
Won longest race in fed 21 yrs from 22 yrs solid there's better records like mark gilbert and may be mark bullard but no one in Kent as done what he's done at all distances not included the 1st he's had in east of England contential club from France think 2 yrs bk from Guernsey he had 12 together n 18 in a minute of so taking first 12 in East of England,
He's such a good pigeon man that keeps it so simple and don't mix words one day he said there's 3 lofts here full that can fly bergerac on day 460 miles but maybe half a dozen that can do tarbes 560 miles he said that extra 100 miles really sorts the birds out ,
I listen two him n think do I make pigeons complicated because he laughs when I mention fats carbs protiens makes me really re think once we talk about pigeons.

Colin Fagg be your mate is it Anthony? I like his way of thinking just keep it simple. Our best seasons are always when we lean towards what you'd probably call an old fashioned style of management. When we complicate it things just don't go smoothly. And I believe to hit super form everything has to go to plan. You get hiccups ya chasing ya tail trying to force it. I've read all the posts this week from Neil, Mike and yourself plus others and I've enjoyed it, it's too in depth for me I'll be honest, I do admire the length yous go to and the thought process, but would be too much for me and the way we like to do things. But certainly food for thought and there's been so much brilliant advice and info on the forum this week for fanciers new and old.

Ya pal I come from Kent me colin and he's son Adam are great friends we been swapping pigeons 16 yrs now I refused open cheque for my no1 hen but I give her and no2 hen two colin when I moved away in 2014 pal no1 hen bred so many fed winners think me n colin stopped counting at 30 first feds she had bred so many treble fed winners but the no2 hen paired to the no1 cocks brother bred colin first nfc as well ,I call it the no1 family but its half mine half colins with out each other we would of never found them ,,the no1 hen when paired to the de Meyer big man bred treble fed winner n he had 3x2nd fed landing with winner plus 1st Bromley open as well I give colin a brother to this cock colin bred a meley that was 2nd combine colin crossed this with the 2nd hen that won first nfc these are pigeons I like pal very honest up two 400 miles and best we owned on East winds but now n then you get one that goes further colin as one now a yearling he was 3rd nfc then 42nd nfc tarbes as yearling this year pal .
One thing stands out colin told me every national winner he has had had a bad race n spent time away from loft and had to rough it two get home but went on to win the big one for him .

Thought it must have been pal just from you explaining what he'd won. Top loft. And they sound like top pigeons yous lads have between yous.

[goose1]

Our best seasons are always when we lean towards what you'd probably call an old fashioned style of management. When we complicate it things just don't go smoothly. And I believe to hit super form everything has to go to plan. You get hiccups ya chasing ya tail trying to force it. I've read all the posts this week from Neil, Mike and yourself plus others and I've enjoyed it, it's too in depth for me I'll be honest, I do admire the length yous go to and the thought process, but would be too much for me and the way we like to do things. But certainly food for thought and there's been so much brilliant advice and info on the forum this week for fanciers new and old.

It was 2005 I changed the way I fed Goose. Prior to that success was plentiful and the system was very simple

I only fed 1 mix. Ever. That got me from Frome (106) to Bergerac (557 on the day)

I only raced cocks and they were fed in their pots in boxes

Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues, Weds and Thurs AM - as much as you can eat in 10 min (I probably visited each cock 3 times)

Thurs PM - as much as you can eat in an hour (I'd go back, empty the pot, replenish, empty the pot, replenish) as many times as I could in that hour

Fri AM (Fed a little later in the day). As much as you can eat in an hour.

If I had em bob on they'd only graze on the Friday


The mix fed was V-L "Prestige".. If I was racing again and I could get that same Prestige again I'd probably race that way again

Around 2004 through to 2007 we had a really good team of inland pigeons. I think 2005 we won 7 old bird races and to give some indication even now how strong the club is its still a record in a club thats been going since 1954. 2007 after 3 weeks 2nd fed we were 1st 2nd fed 1st 2nd 5th 7th 9th combine nearly 3000 pigeons. But them 4 years in particular inland, the pigeons were brilliant. We started to lean more towards distance after that. But I can remember the system clear as now..
Saturday 50/50 verserlaga depurative/super widowhood
Lemon juice, brewers yeast on corn. Aviform ultimate in water.
Sunday am/pm depurative.
Monday same as Sun.
Tues am same. Tues pm 50/50 depurative/ widowhood gemthepax on corn
Wed am widowhood pm widowhood garlic oil on fed hemp and homoform after fed.
Thurs same as Wed.
Friday am widowhood (if they ate much we'd be worried)
Friday 1pm seed.
Simple as that and them pigeons flew brilliantly. And to be honest if I went into inland racing again (I won't) I'd go back to that system even after 20 years.
Something which folk might find interesting. We never gave them pigeons more than 20 mins morning or night. If any of them were round the loft after 20 mins flags were down and they were in. Monday morning you'd be lucky to get 10 mins. Me old boy liked it that way he said I want them to fly the race on a Saturday and not through the week. Obviously everything is totally different now with the distance/marathon stuff.

[goose1]

It was 2005 I changed the way I fed Goose. Prior to that success was plentiful and the system was very simple

I only fed 1 mix. Ever. That got me from Frome (106) to Bergerac (557 on the day)

I only raced cocks and they were fed in their pots in boxes

Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues, Weds and Thurs AM - as much as you can eat in 10 min (I probably visited each cock 3 times)

Thurs PM - as much as you can eat in an hour (I'd go back, empty the pot, replenish, empty the pot, replenish) as many times as I could in that hour

Fri AM (Fed a little later in the day). As much as you can eat in an hour.

If I had em bob on they'd only graze on the Friday


The mix fed was V-L "Prestige".. If I was racing again and I could get that same Prestige again I'd probably race that way again

Around 2004 through to 2007 we had a really good team of inland pigeons. I think 2005 we won 7 old bird races and to give some indication even now how strong the club is its still a record in a club thats been going since 1954. 2007 after 3 weeks 2nd fed we were 1st 2nd fed 1st 2nd 5th 7th 9th combine nearly 3000 pigeons. But them 4 years in particular inland, the pigeons were brilliant. We started to lean more towards distance after that. But I can remember the system clear as now..
Saturday 50/50 verserlaga depurative/super widowhood
Lemon juice, brewers yeast on corn. Aviform ultimate in water.
Sunday am/pm depurative.
Monday same as Sun.
Tues am same. Tues pm 50/50 depurative/ widowhood gemthepax on corn
Wed am widowhood pm widowhood garlic oil on fed hemp and homoform after fed.
Thurs same as Wed.
Friday am widowhood (if they ate much we'd be worried)
Friday 1pm seed.
Simple as that and them pigeons flew brilliantly. And to be honest if I went into inland racing again (I won't) I'd go back to that system even after 20 years.
Something which folk might find interesting. We never gave them pigeons more than 20 mins morning or night. If any of them were round the loft after 20 mins flags were down and they were in. Monday morning you'd be lucky to get 10 mins. Me old boy liked it that way he said I want them to fly the race on a Saturday and not through the week. Obviously everything is totally different now with the distance/marathon stuff.

Did you feed to time limit or a measured amount mate

We fed roughly a spoon a pigeon. We still have the same spoon although it's never used. It measured less than an average table spoon but I'd be lying if I said I remembered exactly what it was now. Cocks were fed in boxes and hens equal amount to cocks but fed on floor. If I were going back to focusing on sprinting now I would feed cocks on floor too. Back in them days our hens were definitely better but we've'd had much better results both inland and at the distance these last few years with cocks fed on floor. 2024 two cocks won amals at 140 and 189 miles. 2022 another cock won amal 350 miles.

[goose1]

Cheers Goose great flying and not ce of you to share that info with us

How do you feed yours Neil? Boxes or communal? And reasons behind it if you don't mind telling us

[goose1]

Cheers Goose great flying and not ce of you to share that info with us

How do you feed yours Neil? Boxes or communal? And reasons behind it if you don't mind telling us

Floor mate so they compete to eat the mix is one reason but not the whole truth
The real reason is I have no lights and go to work pretty early 2-3 days a week to beat traffic in London
So feed in the dark I could rig lights up but I try to make a little disturbance to the cocks as I can ,so I measure what i need and put it down in the tray so at first light it’s infront of them
At night I could go pots but just keep it the same

I have recently started to think about having a pot of say barley or peas/ beans ( that’s one I can’t decide on ) in the cock box 24/7 and feed what I want each night on the floor after loft fly to appetite
So they get no disturbance from me and I can still control make up of the main feed

Thanks for that Neil.
The barley or peas/beans is interesting. I think as fanciers in the past we all associated beans with long distance yet Wade brothers use them as part of their sprint system. And although we're going back to around 2005 here Chris Gordon was 1st and 8th NFC Pau 725 miles and Barley made up a big part of his management system and again fanciers have always associated barley with more of a sprint/middle distance system.
There's certainly not many sports like pigeon racing with so many ways leading to Rome.
I'm sure whatever you decide success will continue

[Anthony webster]

Just like to say one thing lads
Racing in North East is 85 percent middle distance racing they have 2 short races if lucky ,,when most feds are 100 Miles the north east lads are 200 miles down road ,
They don't hang around remember this Yr were at 90 miles there at Grantham my pal was 180 miles I think
Iv all ways said
Sprint racing the midland lads for fast birds
Middle distance birds the north east lads birds
Long distance the southern lads birds u find this strange but I explain
500 miles to loft up north pigeon flys 100 miles in France 100 miles of water 300 miles in uk ,now to south lofts they fly 350 miles in France 100 Miles of water when tired and 50 miles in uk give or take a bit ,so that's my thinking birds in south fly the Channel tired late in day not in the morning fresh.

[Anthony webster]

Over night races pal lads in Yorkshire and all over really are super ,,just think on the day birds 12,14 hours down south there special.
All ways got fast pigeons from Wolverhampton area ,my de Meyers of Arthur ferra were super pigeons .

[Anthony webster]

I haven’t got the connection to fats and feeding Anthony
I get you post but just not sure what you mean food or fats wise

Sorry Neil
Regarding tic beans and wade bros sprint racing most the racing in North East is 180 to 300 Miles , middle distance racing.
I have friends that won unc n Queens cup 2024 there feed is like gravel of a drive compared to feed i see lads using down south,