UkPigeonRacing

Thanks for that Dave and King. I use the new Bricon Pas system which is done through cloud. I don’t take my clock to the club at either marking or reading off as it’s all done through an app on my phone or iPad. As long as my system is turned on in the loft. The information though is read through the PAS master that I got for the club and the birds have to be put through the master when marking and printed off at the club.

King, we are always hearing of massive companies all over the world whose security is getting hacked.
The security of these companies are based on the software being changed regularly to stay ahead of the hackers - when did they last change the ets software?
My view is that the basic forms of ETS are safe but anything that is attached to a computer these days is susceptable (and that is most of the modern systems)
Moreover now with AI

Just read that thro that again and it almost sounds like I know what I am talking about - fact is, I don't and that's why I am so grateful to Matt who not only has that knowledge but seems like an honest fella as well.
If he was head honcho at the RPRA he would turn it on its head.

Diamond Dave wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 8:29 am King, we are always hearing of massive companies all over the world whose security is getting hacked.
The security of these companies are based on the software being changed regularly to stay ahead of the hackers - when did they last change the ets software?
My view is that the basic forms of ETS are safe but anything that is attached to a computer these days is susceptable (and that is most of the modern systems)
Moreover now with AI

Just read that thro that again and it almost sounds like I know what I am talking about - fact is, I don't and that's why I am so grateful to Matt who not only has that knowledge but seems like an honest fella as well.
If he was head honcho at the RPRA he would turn it on its head.

Dave, you may admit that you don't know what your talking about, but you are in the very ball park of the issue!


Story time...
Now, I'm of the generation between outdoor kids, and what they now call tablet kids.

That's to say that I grew up playing out with friends on the hills and in the woods, til dark, then after dinner I'd spend evenings on the computer playing games etc!

The benefit to me is that it made me familiar with both worlds so to speak!

Even now after the birds are shut up on the evening I will still play games with mates online.

Currently in the gaming space Ai is taking off, it's allowing people to modify games in unpredictable ways.

15 years or so ago, I was at college and would be playing games on the PSP (a portable PlayStation) is was basic enough, could play decent 3D games on the go, but compared to the PlayStation 3 console I had at home the games were a lot smaller, and more basic. The question being asked at the time was whether or not PlayStation 2 games could be converted to be playable on the PSP. The answer back then was "It's impossible!".

Jump forward to today, and with the use of Ai assistance, that's exactly what people are doing at home on their own computer/laptops. In some cases they are making some basic PlayStation 3 games playable in that same PSP. If someone had asked that question 15 years ago, they would have been sent away in a straight jacket, never to be seen online again!!

Now I'm sure at this point you're wondering what am I going on about, and how does this relate to Pigeon Racing and ETS systems, well, in short, the ETS systems are very much a basic computer at heart, and they are only as secure as the software they are running.

We can put anti tamper seals on the clocks and on the pads etc, but we can't put and anti tamper seals on software.

Diamond Dave wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 8:29 am King, we are always hearing of massive companies all over the world whose security is getting hacked.
The security of these companies are based on the software being changed regularly to stay ahead of the hackers - when did they last change the ets software?
My view is that the basic forms of ETS are safe but anything that is attached to a computer these days is susceptable (and that is most of the modern systems)
Moreover now with AI

Just read that thro that again and it almost sounds like I know what I am talking about - fact is, I don't and that's why I am so grateful to Matt who not only has that knowledge but seems like an honest fella as well.
If he was head honcho at the RPRA he would turn it on its head.

Hackers want something Dave, why hack an ETS system?
And fanciers should forget about cheating using AI & Software. Is it really worth the effort. Why do it when you can cheat without touching the ETS system. Think back to manual clocks nearly all cheating was via rubbers, not the clock.

king wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 1:40 pm

Diamond Dave wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 8:29 am King, we are always hearing of massive companies all over the world whose security is getting hacked.
The security of these companies are based on the software being changed regularly to stay ahead of the hackers - when did they last change the ets software?
My view is that the basic forms of ETS are safe but anything that is attached to a computer these days is susceptable (and that is most of the modern systems)
Moreover now with AI

Just read that thro that again and it almost sounds like I know what I am talking about - fact is, I don't and that's why I am so grateful to Matt who not only has that knowledge but seems like an honest fella as well.
If he was head honcho at the RPRA he would turn it on its head.

Hackers want something Dave, why hack an ETS system?
And fanciers should forget about cheating using AI & Software. Is it really worth the effort. Why do it when you can cheat without touching the ETS system. Think back to manual clocks nearly all cheating was via rubbers, not the clock.

ETS was introduced to make it a more level playing field at the time eg for those that had a disability I'm led to believe back then, someone will correct me if I'm wrong. As Matt has stated it's a basic system & when said master clock has been tampered with there's a doubt as to it's security features being compromised .
Only a small % race on rubbers I get with what King has said about the rubbers & cheating, most in my club all have ETS. I'm just asking the relevant questions as some of you think it's foolproof.

Hi lads what i can't get my head around if the ETS system does not go on line how does it get hacked we marked are pigeons on a friday locked the master in the cupboard at the club raced Saturday took the master out and printed the clocks off cheers jack

CHARLTON34 wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:21 pm

king wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 1:40 pm

Diamond Dave wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 8:29 am King, we are always hearing of massive companies all over the world whose security is getting hacked.
The security of these companies are based on the software being changed regularly to stay ahead of the hackers - when did they last change the ets software?
My view is that the basic forms of ETS are safe but anything that is attached to a computer these days is susceptable (and that is most of the modern systems)
Moreover now with AI

Just read that thro that again and it almost sounds like I know what I am talking about - fact is, I don't and that's why I am so grateful to Matt who not only has that knowledge but seems like an honest fella as well.
If he was head honcho at the RPRA he would turn it on its head.

Hackers want something Dave, why hack an ETS system?
And fanciers should forget about cheating using AI & Software. Is it really worth the effort. Why do it when you can cheat without touching the ETS system. Think back to manual clocks nearly all cheating was via rubbers, not the clock.

ETS was introduced to make it a more level playing field at the time eg for those that had a disability I'm led to believe back then, someone will correct me if I'm wrong. As Matt has stated it's a basic system & when said master clock has been tampered with there's a doubt as to it's security features being compromised .
Only a small % race on rubbers I get with what King has said about the rubbers & cheating, most in my club all have ETS. I'm just asking the relevant questions as some of you think it's foolproof.

My mention of rubbers was to point out, it's NOT the ETS system that you cheat. It's the ETS RING.

You’re right there King. It would take either 2 members in together or a very inefficient marking team I would imagine for the ETS ring to be compromised.

So if pigeons are clocked electronically over the pad back into a loft you tell me how the print out is different from the time they crossed that pad to what's actually in on the timing sheet for that particular race, let's say it's been adjusted by a couple of minutes.

i dont think AI will be a problem for races i wouldnt of though