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Re: Red Wattle - almost bleeding.
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:37 pm
by king
NeilA wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 8:33 am
Murray wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:00 pm
The thing is, everyone has their own views, and can care for for their own pigeons as they think best.
Agree
But surely if we have a fancier that won what Mike and his family have won on here giving his knowledge and I was seeking advice who would I listen to
There isn't a fancier born that knows everything. We can all learn from others. Mike is a great fancier and most wouldn't go far wrong listening to him. But is knowledge just down to results? I spoke to a very well known fancier who had a very successful racing stud of sprint pigeons about genetics and the moment he began talking it was clear he didn't know basics about the subject.
Another fancier (who raced local to me), was always writing in the BHW and has even written books. Anybody who followed his methods would have been starting again from scratch every year if they copied him.
As Murray has said everyone has their own views. When I first started in pigeons I was told 'listen to everybody, say nothing, then do whatever makes the most sense'
Re: Red Wattle - almost bleeding.
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:29 pm
by king
NeilA wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:05 pm
king wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:37 pm
NeilA wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 8:33 am
Agree
But surely if we have a fancier that won what Mike and his family have won on here giving his knowledge and I was seeking advice who would I listen to
There isn't a fancier born that knows everything. We can all learn from others. Mike is a great fancier and most wouldn't go far wrong listening to him. But is knowledge just down to results? I spoke to a very well known fancier who had a very successful racing stud of sprint pigeons about genetics and the moment he began talking it was clear he didn't know basics about the subject.
Another fancier (who raced local to me), was always writing in the BHW and has even written books. Anybody who followed his methods would have been starting again from scratch every year if they copied him.
As Murray has said everyone has their own views. When I first started in pigeons I was told 'listen to everybody, say nothing, then do whatever makes the most sense'
I’m pretty sure I never said Mike new everything another change of focus in your reply to my post that’s two days running now
Let’s put it this way king before my career went in a different path I was in catering for 6 years, now when I was at college and trying to seek all the information I could , who would I as a keen novice Chef seek advice from ?
Raymond Blanc or the bloke in a burger van
When I changed my work path I listened to two people in the industry both multi millionaires I never listened to people sub contracting to them or working for them as to me although they were free with advice and helpful my theory was if they were any good they would be the millionaires and not standing with me in the pissing rain
I didn't say you said Mike knew everything? read my post again. You are not mentioned anywhere in the reply, so how can you assume that. When I said There isn't a fancier born that knows everything. (There's a full stop. It's a statement of fact No fancier was named). Mike is first mentioned in the 3rd sentence. All 3 sentences are clearly divided by full stops.
Re: Red Wattle - almost bleeding.
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:42 pm
by king
MIL wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:43 pm
Dave ("King") - You ask -
But is knowledge just down to results?
I would say
"Hell Yes!"
To flip the question somewhat what's the point in being more knowledgeable than someone and then seeing that person beat you
How does that work?
So for me - It's a "Hell Yes" - knowledge IS results!
Result can be misleading. I never flew in a small club, the club had 60 members when I first joined. The city had several other smaller clubs. I often never carded in my own club but did often beat the winner of some of the other clubs. Was that winner more knowledgeable than me? I recall having a LPW busschaert in the late 80s which was consistent and often won pools. The bird had a number of 7th, 8th, 9th ect but never actually won a card in my club. I called it the Fulford Cock as it won have won 8 x 1st in that other club. When I won my first race in 1979 it was also 1st Fed. I had 18x2nd before I won again.
I read results and see fanciers dominate the results in their club, same names every week, in my club more than half of those sending were capable of winning and often it was a different fancier every week. One season we had 17 different winners from the 24 races! I won 2 of them that year. Was any fancier any more knowledgeable than someone else?
You only have to look at National races, lots of knowledgeable fanciers sending many household names. I only have to look at the wind direction to to rule many out of the result.
Re: Red Wattle - almost bleeding.
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 3:13 pm
by king
MIL wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:59 pm
king wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:42 pm
MIL wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:43 pm
Dave ("King") - You ask -
But is knowledge just down to results?
I would say
"Hell Yes!"
To flip the question somewhat what's the point in being more knowledgeable than someone and then seeing that person beat you
How does that work?
So for me - It's a "Hell Yes" - knowledge IS results!
Result can be misleading. I never flew in a small club, the club had 60 members when I first joined. The city had several other smaller clubs. I often never carded in my own club but did often beat the winner of some of the other clubs. Was that winner more knowledgeable than me? I recall having a LPW busschaert in the late 80s which was consistent and often won pools. The bird had a number of 7th, 8th, 9th ect but never actually won a card in my club. I called it the Fulford Cock as it won have won 8 x 1st in that other club. When I won my first race in 1979 it was also 1st Fed. I had 18x2nd before I won again.
I read results and see fanciers dominate the results in their club, same names every week, in my club more than half of those sending were capable of winning and often it was a different fancier every week. One season we had 17 different winners from the 24 races! I won 2 of them that year. Was any fancier any more knowledgeable than someone else?
You only have to look at National races, lots of knowledgeable fanciers sending many household names. I only have to look at the wind direction to to rule many out of the result.
If people have an ounce of sense though they can work "who's who" out
I remember I used to take the Brereton Sheet (our club) over to Hill Ridware (our other nearest club at the time) on a Saturday night and we'd exchange sheets as some of the lads sent in both races. At that time Ridware would send twice as many as Brereton (but i'd argue Brereton had the better members sending). Anyway, the one week we were 1.2.3.4 and one bloke said "They wouldn't do that over here". He didn't know I was stood just around the corner.
The Chairman Alan White came out and turned the corner and said to me "You heard that didn't you"
I said "Yes, I did"
He said "I expect there'll be repercussions for that"
I went home, told Mum. Next season we sent at Ridware and won 10/13 races that we sent
Every week the sheet was printed I never said a word to that bloke, but our birds broke his heart
That satisfied me more than anything.
Yes some races give you more satisfaction than others. I recall only sending a couple of birds one week and was delayed in taking the clock in. I walked though the door and said who's got the best. A voice came back (it was Trev, who you know) I'm 1st & 2nd. I said what time you in? He replied 55 & 57. I said Trev your 2nd & 3rd (I was in at 50 and flew further) trying to save a bit of face said, is it pooled? I said only ABCDEFG & Nom.
Re: Red Wattle - almost bleeding.
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 3:25 pm
by king
MIL wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 3:20 pm
Funnily enough I've only just put the phone down from Trevor
I hope he's asking for advice Mike