NeilA wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:22 pm
That would be muscle though king
You only have to look at sports people now to see that
I agree with what you say there Neil but isn’t it muscle that we are talking about. The skeleton of a pigeon would weigh about the same in all of them. It would be the amount of muscle that would add weight. Having said that fat weighs heavier than muscle
King said Athletes weigh more now
In my view It’s more muscles weighing more than 40 odd years ago that doesn’t mean they were fat before but didn’t have the same muscle mass
I not say ALL Athletes weigh more now, just that I noted the 100m ones are bigger, from around 60-70 kg (130-154 lb) in the early Olympic years up to 94 kg (207 lb) Surely nobody thinks that extra weight is just more muscle? your talking of 30+kg of EXTRA WEIGHT!
Fanciers should note that the fastest Wild birds that fly SHORT distances very fast are normally BIG and HEAVY. ie pheasants and partridges! and while many BIG heavy birds also fly long distances they are a different shape altogether.
Many sprint pigeons are big fronted shorter wings and distance birds smaller with longer flights. Constant crossing the 2 stops a family reverting to the correct type for the correct distance. Thats why it's important to choose carefully any cross you bring in.
NeilA wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:12 pm
I’m referring to the big powerful athletic types really king sprinters etc
Yes I do think they weigh more as they have built more muscle mass look at the lady tennis players now to the 60’s that’s muscle not fat they are carrying plus the human size has grown over time . In the past power sportsman were trim and lean with muscle of course but now there muscles are clearly more visible
My best sprint cock was as you described massive front hardly any rump I even use to pass him to fanciers that couldn’t judge a pigeon as I know top fliers would think how unbalanced he was yet he topped the fed 3 times all front he was
Are you sure pheasants fly fast compared to a sparrow over short distances and what is a short distance to a sparrow is it the same as a pheasant version of a short distance ? Maybe I haven’t understood that part of your post
Sparrows fly at 17 - 24 mph. A Pheasant when startled, will burst to the sky in a “flush.” They can fly fast (up to 60 miles per hour when chased)
The point I was really making is a Pheasant is like a 100m runner, HUGE power over a Short distance. Both are BIG/HEAVY. Both Pheasants/sparrows have wings that aren't built for high speed for long periods
My pal in Africa told me that the best 500 mile flyers birds handled like feathers in ya hand just feathers he said they sent 4 teams of 25 so 100 total to 500 miles 835km think he said
They clocked over 50 birds in 10 mins from 500 miles after 60 minutes they had 96 back from 100 birds and some lofts still hadn't clocked
He said it was a easy racing day but still 500 miles and to this day he's never seen nothing like it from 500 miles, birds were just feathers in weight ',
My best pal won the nfc grand national from tarbes last Yr he said the same they go on a Tues so they need to be underweight because if there on weight 4 days sitting in a crate eating there be over weight race day, ant the amount of times iv had a poor national race sending on a Thursday and birds fill like they should Friday night makes me wonder.
It all sounds very complicated to me I don't believe anyone can handle a pigeon and know it's at it's perfect racing weight. It's easy to tell if they've over weigh, but just like people their Ideal weigh is going to be based on their size, and will be within a window of a few grames either side of that. Just my crazy thoughts, if our birds are flying a route which is predominantly head winds and they start the season at a good racing weight I believe they'll need a diet with more calories than birds that are flying in mostly tailwinds, neither do I believe you can add those calories in just one or two feeds, ( fat people aren't fat because they over ate for a couple of meals and anorexic people aren't like that because they skipped a couple of meals) weight loss/gain takes time. Neither do I believe they can race weight off on a single fly, they might lose hydration and feel lighter but once they're rehydrated they've got that weight back. The big exception of course is if they take a few days to return and miss several meals but that's not racing to me.
I don't believe anyone can handle a pigeon and know it's at it's perfect racing weight. It's easy to tell if they've over weigh, but just like people their Ideal weigh is going to be based on their size, and will be within a window of a few grames either side of that. Just my crazy thoughts, if our birds are flying a route which is predominantly head winds and they start the season at a good racing weight I believe they'll need a diet with more calories than birds that are flying in mostly tailwinds, neither do I believe you can add those calories in just one or two feeds, ( fat people aren't fat because they over ate for a couple of meals and anorexic people aren't like that because they skipped a couple of meals) weight loss/gain takes time. Neither do I believe they can race weight off on a single fly, they might lose hydration and feel lighter but once they're rehydrated they've got that weight back. The big exception of course is if they take a few days to return and miss several meals but that's not racing to me.