Where

[MIL]

That's a decision for each loft really based on how many races the yearlings have had, and how much of the partner they've seen, and how recent the contact has been

[NeilA]

Cheers mate

[MIL]

I have a eye to 200-400 at some point so I need to find a way to be competitive at sprints and have a go at the others with the same pigeons with a up and down race programme
So I’m hopeful this change will do both
It’s a finding out season for me

Sorry for the late reply, as you know I was out tonight and didn't get back until late

400 miles is a good fly you know. For 9 hours you're looking at 1300ypm - that's a good strong fly for a pigeon. It brings together the best of speed and no shortage of strength either. To then ask those same pigeons to bounce back to sprint the week after, then back into the Middle Distance arena the week after - that's a real tall ask.

My best and easiest advice for you Neil would be to say this. They're different pigeons for different jobs. Not many sprinters can hack a strong 9 hour fly (competitively) It's right at the end of most sprint families capabilities. By the same token a genuine distance pigeon is only just getting his eyes opened after 9 hrs. This approach is validated by Mark Gilbert really.

Mark has let's say his Belg based sprinters to keep him keen on the sprint races.

He has his Golden Barcelona and the best of the Dutch for the extreme races (say Tarbes through to Barcelona)

What about these races in between though? For that job he again brings a different pigeon to the table. They're "basically" a mix of let's say the best of the old Gaby via Gino Clicque and the Koopman's (there are bits and dabs of other blood). The point is, these are strong pigeons. Not out and out sprinters, but they're a pigeon that can fly at a good pace for a long time - but not what you'd consider "distance pigeons" either.

If I was wanting to try to excel at both the sprinting and at 400 miles I'd be having 2 Sections of pigeons prepared for each task in hand. I've had it where I've had a cock fly well at say 321 miles, and then excel at 380 a fortnight later, but I never asked him to sprint inbetween (see below). He was 33rd at 321 miles against 3,754 birds and then 1st a fortnight later against 3,035 birds into a NE wind. But I never asked him to sprint inbetween

[Diamond Dave]

Hi Mike, when you say "you didnt ask them to sprint in between" does that mean you didnt send em to keep em fit or they went but you didnt expect them to win anything?

[NeilA]

I have a eye to 200-400 at some point so I need to find a way to be competitive at sprints and have a go at the others with the same pigeons with a up and down race programme
So I’m hopeful this change will do both
It’s a finding out season for me

Sorry for the late reply, as you know I was out tonight and didn't get back until late

400 miles is a good fly you know. For 9 hours you're looking at 1300ypm - that's a good strong fly for a pigeon. It brings together the best of speed and no shortage of strength either. To then ask those same pigeons to bounce back to sprint the week after, then back into the Middle Distance arena the week after - that's a real tall ask.

My best and easiest advice for you Neil would be to say this. They're different pigeons for different jobs. Not many sprinters can hack a strong 9 hour fly (competitively) It's right at the end of most sprint families capabilities. By the same token a genuine distance pigeon is only just getting his eyes opened after 9 hrs. This approach is validated by Mark Gilbert really.

Mark has let's say his Belg based sprinters to keep him keen on the sprint races.

He has his Golden Barcelona and the best of the Dutch for the extreme races (say Tarbes through to Barcelona)

What about these races in between though? For that job he again brings a different pigeon to the table. They're "basically" a mix of let's say the best of the old Gaby via Gino Clicque and the Koopman's (there are bits and dabs of other blood). The point is, these are strong pigeons. Not out and out sprinters, but they're a pigeon that can fly at a good pace for a long time - but not what you'd consider "distance pigeons" either.

If I was wanting to try to excel at both the sprinting and at 400 miles I'd be having 2 Sections of pigeons prepared for each task in hand. I've had it where I've had a cock fly well at say 321 miles, and then excel at 380 a fortnight later, but I never asked him to sprint inbetween (see below). He was 33rd at 321 miles against 3,754 birds and then 1st a fortnight later against 3,035 birds into a NE wind. But I never asked him to sprint inbetween

Cheers Mike
Another top pigeon for you
Can I ask how would you feed hens for 200 plus to say 375 miles and avoid the lesbian issues I don’t really want to box them
I have stud perch’s and grills on the floor
No issues so far but I’m keeping them short and to short if like next year they were for these races

[MIL]

Hi Mike, when you say "you didnt ask them to sprint in between" does that mean you didnt send em to keep em fit or they went but you didnt expect them to win anything?

The race programme at that time would have gone 321, 148, 380, 148, 488

The above cock went 321 then 380. He never even went to the 148 because the focus was on both the full recovery from the 321 and the preparation for the 380.

Other cocks in that Section that never went to 321 and weren't going to 380 carried the responsibility of the 148's

They were faster than he was so there was no need for me to be risking him

[MIL]

Cheers Mike
Another top pigeon for you
Can I ask how would you feed hens for 200 plus to say 375 miles and avoid the lesbian issues I don’t really want to box them
I have stud perch’s and grills on the floor
No issues so far but I’m keeping them short and to short if like next year they were for these races

Will come to this later Neil cos a couple of images will help me explain

Gotta say though that my experience with hens is a bit on the limited side

[MIL]

Cheers Mike
Another top pigeon for you
Can I ask how would you feed hens for 200 plus to say 375 miles and avoid the lesbian issues I don’t really want to box them
I have stud perch’s and grills on the floor
No issues so far but I’m keeping them short and to short if like next year they were for these races

Hi Neil

Thanks for being patient with me.

You know what i'm like, if i'm asked a question I like to be as thorough as I can in my response.

Yea, that cock was a good lad, and he was the one when I was aged 21 that taught me more about the widowhood than any other cock - but that's a different story. You've asked about hens

Now, right from the outset my experience in racing hens isn't vast. When I sold my birds in 2007 I was fundamentally a w'hood cock racer and that was it. It was only when Dave started to help Dad in latter years that hens became a bit of a feature cos Dave liked hens. Our last season was 2020 so I've had to dig into the archives to find what I was looking for to support what I'm saying.


We came to the 2020 season a little later than you'd originally think. We lost Dad on the 24th March and never sent until the 2nd Fed race of the season. You can see that validated here by "Solo" winning 1st Fed against over 2,000 birds by about 50 seconds. https://www.elimarpigeons.com/articles/ ... t-of-frome


He was a cock though. After Dad passed we decided we'd have a crack at the 2 NMCC channel races because Dad always loved the channel and this was good competition against fanciers from 5 different Counties

The snapshots below feature the feeding system they used in the run up to the races, the break down of the mixtures, and the results of the 2 races. When you look at the results of the 2 races remember that ALL those timers are hens.... I found it ironically funny that it was after these 2 x NMCC races that our birds were drug tested (obviously came back negative). When I think of all the races we'd won sprinting, by all the clear margins and all the big birdages, it was the channel that got us tested. The races "the knockers" said we couldn't fly

[NeilA]

Cheers Mike
Did you still feed the hens like you did the cocks a little at a time or more tight at times
That’s great thank you

[MIL]

Hi Neil

Certain elements were similar, some were not

My cocks were always fed in pots in their boxes. I strongly favoured creating that bond that "His Home is his Castle" so I used to feed them in their boxes and play fight with them. I'd have them drawing blood off me and hanging off my hand in mid air. Individual pigeons have different appetites, and by feeding this way I could cater for every need. The trigger was always the same though.

Put a small amount in the pot. Eat it? Get some more. Put more in. Eat it? Get some more. This would go on until I started to see them slow down. When they weren't bollocking it down them, but slowly eating that was my trigger and I then removed the corn and turned the pot.

The hens were fed in a communal trough. Basic policy still applied though. Put small volume down. Eat it? Get more. More down. Eat it? Get more. My trigger with the hens was the same though - when they started to eat more slowly or go to drink then the trough and the food was removed.