what do you look for?

[Trev]

My self
No1 don't get fooled by birdage numbers
No2 check there location and see if they can win against the wind not when everything suits them
No3 buy a big kit and race the socks of them and keep the best after 3 seasons racing if they are good go back but only buy the same as what worked for you over 3 seasons,

Just like to point out that alot of in fashion names selling for big money now could not win there club last season against wind but when wind turns and birds fly directly over there loft they can win,
But most important to me is winning against the wind
And looking for a flyer who can send a small team and perform at the top regularly.

I do agree completely with the first two points, the 3rd I kind of do but realise that for some fanciers, especially those just starting out and with limited funds, you can't always afford to risk throwing away birds you've just brought, very different if you are trying to improve an existing team !!
The other point I would always question is the amount of firsts that many of these fanciers have, so many are actually the same race but nominated through several different organizations, yes technically it's more than one but in reality, still only one.

[Anthony webster]

My self
No1 don't get fooled by birdage numbers
No2 check there location and see if they can win against the wind not when everything suits them
No3 buy a big kit and race the socks of them and keep the best after 3 seasons racing if they are good go back but only buy the same as what worked for you over 3 seasons,

Just like to point out that alot of in fashion names selling for big money now could not win there club last season against wind but when wind turns and birds fly directly over there loft they can win,
But most important to me is winning against the wind
And looking for a flyer who can send a small team and perform at the top regularly.

I do agree completely with the first two points, the 3rd I kind of do but realise that for some fanciers, especially those just starting out and with limited funds, you can't always afford to risk throwing away birds you've just brought, very different if you are trying to improve an existing team !!
The other point I would always question is the amount of firsts that many of these fanciers have, so many are actually the same race but nominated through several different organizations, yes technically it's more than one but in reality, still only one.

I see your point Trevor about money
But over 3 seasons racing paying for poor quality birds to race against good birds that throwing money away as well and allso sole destroying when ya knocking ya plums in and getting know where each weekend,
The birdage thing is a con
But looks great on paper
Like Holland 80 members send 8000 birds
Belgium 80 members send less than 800 birds
Like north east in unc most are 2 n 3 members per team they send 60 to 100 birds most weeks so big birdage
In London most lads have small gardens n small set ups sending between 12 n 24 birds a race so birdage is way lower,
So the birdage thing is a con in my opinion until you study results.

[Trev]

My self
No1 don't get fooled by birdage numbers
No2 check there location and see if they can win against the wind not when everything suits them
No3 buy a big kit and race the socks of them and keep the best after 3 seasons racing if they are good go back but only buy the same as what worked for you over 3 seasons,

Just like to point out that alot of in fashion names selling for big money now could not win there club last season against wind but when wind turns and birds fly directly over there loft they can win,
But most important to me is winning against the wind
And looking for a flyer who can send a small team and perform at the top regularly.

I do agree completely with the first two points, the 3rd I kind of do but realise that for some fanciers, especially those just starting out and with limited funds, you can't always afford to risk throwing away birds you've just brought, very different if you are trying to improve an existing team !!
The other point I would always question is the amount of firsts that many of these fanciers have, so many are actually the same race but nominated through several different organizations, yes technically it's more than one but in reality, still only one.

I see your point Trevor about money
But over 3 seasons racing paying for poor quality birds to race against good birds that throwing money away as well and allso sole destroying when ya knocking ya plums in and getting know where each weekend,
The birdage thing is a con
But looks great on paper
Like Holland 80 members send 8000 birds
Belgium 80 members send less than 800 birds
Like north east in unc most are 2 n 3 members per team they send 60 to 100 birds most weeks so big birdage
In London most lads have small gardens n small set ups sending between 12 n 24 birds a race so birdage is way lower,
So the birdage thing is a con in my opinion until you study results.

Yes I definitely agree with that mate, it can be a false economy and very frustrating seeing hard earned cash go down the pan week after week, I guess it's all a balancing act between what we want to achieve and how much we can justify spending to achieve it.
As you say also, the numbers game is a complete con, the other thing is how many birds are some of these top fliers actually breeding and losing each year to get the few that win the big prizes.
One of the big fliers down here, for whom pigeons are also a buisness will send in various clubs each week, often in the same race. There is no arguing that he does have some outstanding pigeons from some of the top lofts in Europe, not only does his team score regularly for him but many of our club and federation members are also winning with his birds. However unless you are prepared to pay serious money you aren't getting direct youngsters from his stock birds or best racers.
The other thing with him and many other top fliers, and I'm not knocking them for this as winning is their only goal, but they are only sending to races which they are likely to win, if the conditions are against them then they aren't sending.
The sad thing with that attitude though is that if we all took that stance then club and federation racing would almost certainly be finished and this would become a sport just for the elite.

[Anthony webster]

I do agree completely with the first two points, the 3rd I kind of do but realise that for some fanciers, especially those just starting out and with limited funds, you can't always afford to risk throwing away birds you've just brought, very different if you are trying to improve an existing team !!
The other point I would always question is the amount of firsts that many of these fanciers have, so many are actually the same race but nominated through several different organizations, yes technically it's more than one but in reality, still only one.

I see your point Trevor about money
But over 3 seasons racing paying for poor quality birds to race against good birds that throwing money away as well and allso sole destroying when ya knocking ya plums in and getting know where each weekend,
The birdage thing is a con
But looks great on paper
Like Holland 80 members send 8000 birds
Belgium 80 members send less than 800 birds
Like north east in unc most are 2 n 3 members per team they send 60 to 100 birds most weeks so big birdage
In London most lads have small gardens n small set ups sending between 12 n 24 birds a race so birdage is way lower,
So the birdage thing is a con in my opinion until you study results.

Yes I definitely agree with that mate, it can be a false economy and very frustrating seeing hard earned cash go down the pan week after week, I guess it's all a balancing act between what we want to achieve and how much we can justify spending to achieve it.
As you say also, the numbers game is a complete con, the other thing is how many birds are some of these top fliers actually breeding and losing each year to get the few that win the big prizes.
One of the big fliers down here, for whom pigeons are also a buisness will send in various clubs each week, often in the same race. There is no arguing that he does have some outstanding pigeons from some of the top lofts in Europe, not only does his team score regularly for him but many of our club and federation members are also winning with his birds. However unless you are prepared to pay serious money you aren't getting direct youngsters from his stock birds or best racers.
The other thing with him and many other top fliers, and I'm not knocking them for this as winning is their only goal, but they are only sending to races which they are likely to win, if the conditions are against them then they aren't sending.
The sad thing with that attitude though is that if we all took that stance then club and federation racing would almost certainly be finished and this would become a sport just for the elite.

Yes Trevor agree pal think most lads might charge a novice a tiny bit to start with but after that there friendship is good and the good flyer helps and gifts the novice pigeons
In 2009, 10 I was winning nice few races but I couldn't win the fast races so in 2011 I see a advert in bhw Arthur farra in Wolverhampton had late breds for sale £50 each of racers or £100 each off Wolverhampton fed winners I had the old lambrechts and Arthur was racing the de Meyer pigeons I new lambrecht n de Meyer swapped birds so I bought 6 baby's of Arthur fed winners crossed them with mine n they was great birds one hen being champion yb of fed 9 races 7 times in top of fed result n topped it once, but after them 6 baby's me n Arthur became friends he helped me I helped him were still good mates now but ever since then Arthur as never asked for 1 penny of me for birds,
Difference with genuine lads they want to help novices but pigeon dealers just want there money n jog them on n that's sad.

[Andy]

I agree with that Tony.

[Trev]

I see your point Trevor about money
But over 3 seasons racing paying for poor quality birds to race against good birds that throwing money away as well and allso sole destroying when ya knocking ya plums in and getting know where each weekend,
The birdage thing is a con
But looks great on paper
Like Holland 80 members send 8000 birds
Belgium 80 members send less than 800 birds
Like north east in unc most are 2 n 3 members per team they send 60 to 100 birds most weeks so big birdage
In London most lads have small gardens n small set ups sending between 12 n 24 birds a race so birdage is way lower,
So the birdage thing is a con in my opinion until you study results.

Yes I definitely agree with that mate, it can be a false economy and very frustrating seeing hard earned cash go down the pan week after week, I guess it's all a balancing act between what we want to achieve and how much we can justify spending to achieve it.
As you say also, the numbers game is a complete con, the other thing is how many birds are some of these top fliers actually breeding and losing each year to get the few that win the big prizes.
One of the big fliers down here, for whom pigeons are also a buisness will send in various clubs each week, often in the same race. There is no arguing that he does have some outstanding pigeons from some of the top lofts in Europe, not only does his team score regularly for him but many of our club and federation members are also winning with his birds. However unless you are prepared to pay serious money you aren't getting direct youngsters from his stock birds or best racers.
The other thing with him and many other top fliers, and I'm not knocking them for this as winning is their only goal, but they are only sending to races which they are likely to win, if the conditions are against them then they aren't sending.
The sad thing with that attitude though is that if we all took that stance then club and federation racing would almost certainly be finished and this would become a sport just for the elite.

Yes Trevor agree pal think most lads might charge a novice a tiny bit to start with but after that there friendship is good and the good flyer helps and gifts the novice pigeons
In 2009, 10 I was winning nice few races but I couldn't win the fast races so in 2011 I see a advert in bhw Arthur farra in Wolverhampton had late breds for sale £50 each of racers or £100 each off Wolverhampton fed winners I had the old lambrechts and Arthur was racing the de Meyer pigeons I new lambrecht n de Meyer swapped birds so I bought 6 baby's of Arthur fed winners crossed them with mine n they was great birds one hen being champion yb of fed 9 races 7 times in top of fed result n topped it once, but after them 6 baby's me n Arthur became friends he helped me I helped him were still good mates now but ever since then Arthur as never asked for 1 penny of me for birds,
Difference with genuine lads they want to help novices but pigeon dealers just want there money n jog them on n that's sad.

That is very true Tony, most fanciers are still very honest and genuine people, Jed Jackson's wife said to me a few years ago, that before his death, he told her if she ever needed anything just to ask a pigeon man, she lived by this until her passing a couple of years ago and was never disappointed.
Andy and I got into pigeons through our Dad and were lucky enough to have grown up amongst some very good pigeon fanciers in what was then a 40+ member, very strong, Worthing and District HS, so a lot of our original birds and the advice we still go by today was given to us by them. Even today, having been keeping pigeons most of my life I'm still being helped along by some excellent pigeon fanciers. As you can gather I'm primarily a distance flier, Ive already been gifted birds by Dave Bridger, and as I am in need of a bit of speed in my loft this year one of our top fliers, Alan Still, has gifted me 4 cock birds, one is a stock bird he purchased from Darren May, the other three are same way bred birds, "Pit Bulls" from his Federation winning widowhood team. I know these are now surplus to his requirements as he needed to make space but they still overshadow any sprint pigeon I have !!

[Anthony webster]

Yes I definitely agree with that mate, it can be a false economy and very frustrating seeing hard earned cash go down the pan week after week, I guess it's all a balancing act between what we want to achieve and how much we can justify spending to achieve it.
As you say also, the numbers game is a complete con, the other thing is how many birds are some of these top fliers actually breeding and losing each year to get the few that win the big prizes.
One of the big fliers down here, for whom pigeons are also a buisness will send in various clubs each week, often in the same race. There is no arguing that he does have some outstanding pigeons from some of the top lofts in Europe, not only does his team score regularly for him but many of our club and federation members are also winning with his birds. However unless you are prepared to pay serious money you aren't getting direct youngsters from his stock birds or best racers.
The other thing with him and many other top fliers, and I'm not knocking them for this as winning is their only goal, but they are only sending to races which they are likely to win, if the conditions are against them then they aren't sending.
The sad thing with that attitude though is that if we all took that stance then club and federation racing would almost certainly be finished and this would become a sport just for the elite.

Yes Trevor agree pal think most lads might charge a novice a tiny bit to start with but after that there friendship is good and the good flyer helps and gifts the novice pigeons
In 2009, 10 I was winning nice few races but I couldn't win the fast races so in 2011 I see a advert in bhw Arthur farra in Wolverhampton had late breds for sale £50 each of racers or £100 each off Wolverhampton fed winners I had the old lambrechts and Arthur was racing the de Meyer pigeons I new lambrecht n de Meyer swapped birds so I bought 6 baby's of Arthur fed winners crossed them with mine n they was great birds one hen being champion yb of fed 9 races 7 times in top of fed result n topped it once, but after them 6 baby's me n Arthur became friends he helped me I helped him were still good mates now but ever since then Arthur as never asked for 1 penny of me for birds,
Difference with genuine lads they want to help novices but pigeon dealers just want there money n jog them on n that's sad.

That is very true Tony, most fanciers are still very honest and genuine people, Jed Jackson's wife said to me a few years ago, that before his death, he told her if she ever needed anything just to ask a pigeon man, she lived by this until her passing a couple of years ago and was never disappointed.
Andy and I got into pigeons through our Dad and were lucky enough to have grown up amongst some very good pigeon fanciers in what was then a 40+ member, very strong, Worthing and District HS, so a lot of our original birds and the advice we still go by today was given to us by them. Even today, having been keeping pigeons most of my life I'm still being helped along by some excellent pigeon fanciers. As you can gather I'm primarily a distance flier, Ive already been gifted birds by Dave Bridger, and as I am in need of a bit of speed in my loft this year one of our top fliers, Alan Still, has gifted me 4 cock birds, one is a stock bird he purchased from Darren May, the other three are same way bred birds, "Pit Bulls" from his Federation winning widowhood team. I know these are now surplus to his requirements as he needed to make space but they still overshadow any sprint pigeon I have !!

My friend Stacy Simmons raced down by you he's cousins and uncles n grandad still race down where you are there last names are gunn.

[Trev]

Yes Trevor agree pal think most lads might charge a novice a tiny bit to start with but after that there friendship is good and the good flyer helps and gifts the novice pigeons
In 2009, 10 I was winning nice few races but I couldn't win the fast races so in 2011 I see a advert in bhw Arthur farra in Wolverhampton had late breds for sale £50 each of racers or £100 each off Wolverhampton fed winners I had the old lambrechts and Arthur was racing the de Meyer pigeons I new lambrecht n de Meyer swapped birds so I bought 6 baby's of Arthur fed winners crossed them with mine n they was great birds one hen being champion yb of fed 9 races 7 times in top of fed result n topped it once, but after them 6 baby's me n Arthur became friends he helped me I helped him were still good mates now but ever since then Arthur as never asked for 1 penny of me for birds,
Difference with genuine lads they want to help novices but pigeon dealers just want there money n jog them on n that's sad.

That is very true Tony, most fanciers are still very honest and genuine people, Jed Jackson's wife said to me a few years ago, that before his death, he told her if she ever needed anything just to ask a pigeon man, she lived by this until her passing a couple of years ago and was never disappointed.
Andy and I got into pigeons through our Dad and were lucky enough to have grown up amongst some very good pigeon fanciers in what was then a 40+ member, very strong, Worthing and District HS, so a lot of our original birds and the advice we still go by today was given to us by them. Even today, having been keeping pigeons most of my life I'm still being helped along by some excellent pigeon fanciers. As you can gather I'm primarily a distance flier, Ive already been gifted birds by Dave Bridger, and as I am in need of a bit of speed in my loft this year one of our top fliers, Alan Still, has gifted me 4 cock birds, one is a stock bird he purchased from Darren May, the other three are same way bred birds, "Pit Bulls" from his Federation winning widowhood team. I know these are now surplus to his requirements as he needed to make space but they still overshadow any sprint pigeon I have !!

My friend Stacy Simmons raced down by you he's cousins and uncles n grandad still race down where you are there last names are gunn.

Yes I know of the Gunns and do remember the name Simmons !!
The Gunn's have belonged and raced with Brighton for many years, I remember the name from the Old Portsmouth North Road Federation days. I think they race in both the Southcoast Federation and the Sussex North Road Federation, they also compete in Classics, there are several of racing as individuals or in partnerships. They often appear in the Federation and classic results, Lance Gunn often tops our Fed and does very well in the Classics, he won the BICC young bird National from Guernsey in 2022.
https://www.pipa.be/en/articles/report- ... ember-2022

[MIL]

The other thing with him and many other top fliers, and I'm not knocking them for this as winning is their only goal, but they are only sending to races which they are likely to win, if the conditions are against them then they aren't sending.
The sad thing with that attitude though is that if we all took that stance then club and federation racing would almost certainly be finished and this would become a sport just for the elite.

I do understand what you're saying here Trev, and there's no room for arguing with your final sentence

What I do find curious though is this :



in Horse Racing a trainer will happily pull his horse out of a race if the going doesn't suit that horse - and no one bats an eyelid at that decision.

Effectively the same thing happens in pigeon racing if a guy doesn't send on an unfavourable wind - he's criticised.

By same token when he gets the wind and he wins they say "Well he should win it in that wind" - never mind that there might be a dozen other members in his town who are also crying out for the same wind

[Trev]

I do understand what you're saying here Trev, and there's no room for arguing with your final sentence

What I do find curious though is this :



in Horse Racing a trainer will happily pull his horse out of a race if the going doesn't suit that horse - and no one bats an eyelid at that decision.

Effectively the same thing happens in pigeon racing if a guy doesn't send on an unfavourable wind - he's criticised.

By same token when he gets the wind and he wins they say "Well he should win it in that wind" - never mind that there might be a dozen other members in his town who are also crying out for the same wind

I completely agree with that Mike, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't, and everyone is entitled to race their birds however they see fit, also in most cases Clubs need them as they are often the ones sending the big numbers.
I think the sad reality is that eventually because of this, Club racing will eventually die out.