Hen racing age

[NeilA]

I see yearlings and two year olds winning here on the sprints not often a old pigeon
I don’t think I have raced one past 3 for some time
If they get to the end of 3 years they really deserve a go at breeding as they have come through 4 years of selection

I raced 3 different 3 Yr olds last season for my first ever time normally only race yearlings n two Yr olds
But 2 out the 3 topped the open n other one landed with winner n was 2nd open, these was on dirty dodgy race days n probably these older pigeons know the tricks of the trade on nice days the 2 Yr old hens were way faster.

Plus them 3 hens were already good or they wouldn’t have been in your loft past the yearling stage
I think some people keep pigeons in hope then justify being right with the odd club card without realising how many times they have been wrong and breeding off the rubbish that they allowed to get to 4

[MIL]

I think the further the distance the more likely you are to find a pigeon with a bit of age about it appearing in the results. When you're getting to 550 miles and beyond you quite often see "older" pigeons appearing. In part I think that this is often because the pigeons have been brought along quite steadily - epecially in their earlier years. Ther 600 miles guys who I know aren't too bothered about how much racing these distance prospects get as babies - and even as yearlings aren't often punished. To me this is the "traditional" method and somebody like say Mark Gilbert is much more progressive in asking his extreme distance pigeons the acid question much earlier in their lives. This is an approach that I have a lot of time for.

When you're sprinting (to me where I live in the Mildands we can ge down to the coast in 150 miles) then its all about youth. Yes I've had pigeons score at 4 and 5 years of age - but they're the exceptions rather than the rule. Sprinting with OB is all about yearlings and 2 year olds. There's little substitute for youth. Of course there's examples of good pigeons performing well sprinting at an older age - I had them at my loft too, but i'm generalising. All of my RPRA Award winners in the 0-250 miles category won that award either as yearlings or 2 year olds - without exception.

A pigeon at 2 rarely surprised me. This is because there wasn't a 2 year old in my team without damn good reason for it being there. It'd have had say 5-6 races as a YB and then 12 as a yearling. That's say 18 opportunities to show me how good it was. If it hadn't done "something" on several occasions then there was no place in the team for it. This is because I'd got young cocks coming through that wanted the box.

So distance, yes, you can get examples of older birds doing well - but the more you shorten the distance the more it becomes a younger pigeons game.

Mike

I totally agree with your opening paragraph Mike, but the "traditional" method is used by many simple because of the size of their set up. Many back garden lofts don't have the luxury of HUGE teams like the like's of Mark Gilbert and Jelle Jellema. We often hear of their successful yearlings but never about the amount of the birds that don't succeed?
It's very much easier to get yearlings a lot of channel/National experience the further South you live? And I'm sure Mark's progressive approach would be tweaked if he lived 200 miles further North.

I don't think his appproach would differ that much. 580 mls is 580 mls (as a random distance) wherever you live

What is especially impressive with Mark's approach is his willingness to turn his pigeons back around within 2 weeks of flying a distance race.

For instance when "Southfield Gold" won the BICC Pau race in 2023 and was 6th International 12,631 birds (14 hrs 25 on the wing) -- that cock was back in the basket for another long distance race like within 10 days. This is an approach that requires balls. How many of us would retire and covet a cock like that?

[Andy]

Taking nothing away from Mark but you can’t compare him really with the average small team fancier. With the number of birds he keeps, the number of helpers he has and the resources at his disposal he can afford to push them on. He relies on success to sell pigeons so needs good performances. He knows how to get them and is a top fancier. But I also know he loses more pigeons a year than a lot of fanciers would ever have.

[MIL]

I was using Mark as an example of someone who's more progressive with his "distance" pigeons by asking them to perform at a younger age than the "traditional" method

My orignial point about the shorter the distance the more the youth remains

[king]

I think the further the distance the more likely you are to find a pigeon with a bit of age about it appearing in the results. When you're getting to 550 miles and beyond you quite often see "older" pigeons appearing. In part I think that this is often because the pigeons have been brought along quite steadily - epecially in their earlier years. Ther 600 miles guys who I know aren't too bothered about how much racing these distance prospects get as babies - and even as yearlings aren't often punished. To me this is the "traditional" method and somebody like say Mark Gilbert is much more progressive in asking his extreme distance pigeons the acid question much earlier in their lives. This is an approach that I have a lot of time for.

When you're sprinting (to me where I live in the Mildands we can ge down to the coast in 150 miles) then its all about youth. Yes I've had pigeons score at 4 and 5 years of age - but they're the exceptions rather than the rule. Sprinting with OB is all about yearlings and 2 year olds. There's little substitute for youth. Of course there's examples of good pigeons performing well sprinting at an older age - I had them at my loft too, but i'm generalising. All of my RPRA Award winners in the 0-250 miles category won that award either as yearlings or 2 year olds - without exception.

A pigeon at 2 rarely surprised me. This is because there wasn't a 2 year old in my team without damn good reason for it being there. It'd have had say 5-6 races as a YB and then 12 as a yearling. That's say 18 opportunities to show me how good it was. If it hadn't done "something" on several occasions then there was no place in the team for it. This is because I'd got young cocks coming through that wanted the box.

So distance, yes, you can get examples of older birds doing well - but the more you shorten the distance the more it becomes a younger pigeons game.

Mike

I totally agree with your opening paragraph Mike, but the "traditional" method is used by many simple because of the size of their set up. Many back garden lofts don't have the luxury of HUGE teams like the like's of Mark Gilbert and Jelle Jellema. We often hear of their successful yearlings but never about the amount of the birds that don't succeed?
It's very much easier to get yearlings a lot of channel/National experience the further South you live? And I'm sure Mark's progressive approach would be tweaked if he lived 200 miles further North.

I don't think his appproach would differ that much. 580 mls is 580 mls (as a random distance) wherever you live

What is especially impressive with Mark's approach is his willingness to turn his pigeons back around within 2 weeks of flying a distance race.

For instance when "Southfield Gold" won the BICC Pau race in 2023 and was 6th International 12,631 birds (14 hrs 25 on the wing) -- that cock was back in the basket for another long distance race like within 10 days. This is an approach that requires balls. How many of us would retire and covet a cock like that?

Many fanciers turn the birds back within a short time also. Many fanciers in section K & L will have the same birds flying Tarbes 700+ and then back to 550+ miles. As you say 14 1/2 hours on the wing is the same whether the bird score high in an International or high section prize? I've even know local fanciers in the past send birds twice in 7 days to 500 miles.

[MIL]

I agree - and with distinction too

Best example I can think of is "King Arthur" of Colin Lloyd

Was 1st Federation Saintes 485 mls on a blistering hot day (only bird on the day in the Fed)

7 days later he was 1st Section J, 1st Open NFC Saintes.

[king]

I agree - and with distinction too

Best example I can think of is "King Arthur" of Colin Lloyd

Was 1st Federation Saintes 485 mls on a blistering hot day (only bird on the day in the Fed)

7 days later he was 1st Section J, 1st Open NFC Saintes.

Ha Yes Trev had them out of 'King Arthur' his never saw France let alone fly back from there

[MIL]

Interesting, I know "King Arthur" to be a prolific breeder of winners but inland and on the channel

[Trev]

I see yearlings and two year olds winning here on the sprints not often a old pigeon
I don’t think I have raced one past 3 for some time
If they get to the end of 3 years they really deserve a go at breeding as they have come through 4 years of selection

I raced 3 different 3 Yr olds last season for my first ever time normally only race yearlings n two Yr olds
But 2 out the 3 topped the open n other one landed with winner n was 2nd open, these was on dirty dodgy race days n probably these older pigeons know the tricks of the trade on nice days the 2 Yr old hens were way faster.

Plus them 3 hens were already good or they wouldn’t have been in your loft past the yearling stage
I think some people keep pigeons in hope then justify being right with the odd club card without realising how many times they have been wrong and breeding off the rubbish that they allowed to get to 4

I think it's also knowing your birds, back in the 80s+90s I didn't push my birds hard (as Mike said in his post) I didn't expect anything from them before they were 2 year olds, racing was just training, but as two year olds I expect them to be flying 350 - 400miles and as 3 year olds 500+ miles. Even then, with a small team, if the conditions allowed I'd happily send them to at least two of our longest races.
As we keep saying, its "different strokes for different folks" what suits you and your set up won't suit someone else, but that doesn't make it wrong.

[Trev]

I think the further the distance the more likely you are to find a pigeon with a bit of age about it appearing in the results. When you're getting to 550 miles and beyond you quite often see "older" pigeons appearing. In part I think that this is often because the pigeons have been brought along quite steadily - epecially in their earlier years. Ther 600 miles guys who I know aren't too bothered about how much racing these distance prospects get as babies - and even as yearlings aren't often punished. To me this is the "traditional" method and somebody like say Mark Gilbert is much more progressive in asking his extreme distance pigeons the acid question much earlier in their lives. This is an approach that I have a lot of time for.

When you're sprinting (to me where I live in the Mildands we can ge down to the coast in 150 miles) then its all about youth. Yes I've had pigeons score at 4 and 5 years of age - but they're the exceptions rather than the rule. Sprinting with OB is all about yearlings and 2 year olds. There's little substitute for youth. Of course there's examples of good pigeons performing well sprinting at an older age - I had them at my loft too, but i'm generalising. All of my RPRA Award winners in the 0-250 miles category won that award either as yearlings or 2 year olds - without exception.

A pigeon at 2 rarely surprised me. This is because there wasn't a 2 year old in my team without damn good reason for it being there. It'd have had say 5-6 races as a YB and then 12 as a yearling. That's say 18 opportunities to show me how good it was. If it hadn't done "something" on several occasions then there was no place in the team for it. This is because I'd got young cocks coming through that wanted the box.

So distance, yes, you can get examples of older birds doing well - but the more you shorten the distance the more it becomes a younger pigeons game.

Mike

I totally agree with your opening paragraph Mike, but the "traditional" method is used by many simple because of the size of their set up. Many back garden lofts don't have the luxury of HUGE teams like the like's of Mark Gilbert and Jelle Jellema. We often hear of their successful yearlings but never about the amount of the birds that don't succeed?
It's very much easier to get yearlings a lot of channel/National experience the further South you live? And I'm sure Mark's progressive approach would be tweaked if he lived 200 miles further North.

I don't think his appproach would differ that much. 580 mls is 580 mls (as a random distance) wherever you live

What is especially impressive with Mark's approach is his willingness to turn his pigeons back around within 2 weeks of flying a distance race.

For instance when "Southfield Gold" won the BICC Pau race in 2023 and was 6th International 12,631 birds (14 hrs 25 on the wing) -- that cock was back in the basket for another long distance race like within 10 days. This is an approach that requires balls. How many of us would retire and covet a cock like that?

I agree Mike, you certainly can't argue with Mark Gilbert's credentials and good luck to him, I sincerely hope he continues to achieve his goals. But I do think it's easy to be brave when you have a set up like Mark's and the fact is that the more you have, the more you can afford to gamble.
When you really study these National and Classic results there are actually more fanciers than you realise who turn their birds around and send them back again, most of these, like Mark are big team fliers, but I've no doubt there are a few small loft fanciers who do it as well. Once you have an established team and know your birds deciding where they go and how often is easy, in my opinion the really brave distance fliers are those who only send 1 or 2 to 500+ miles and still get them in the result.

These are only my opinions, I have only ever really been a back garden fancier with no real ambition other than to enjoy my birds and to see them come home, anything after that is a bonus so I will never judge others on how they choose to fly their birds and have nothing but admiration for those at the top.

All the best.