As Andy has said you don't need NOTHING to HELP them. Nature does it all. If a bird struggles though the moult move it on. It YOU help it you could be helping a weakling that will let you down later. The less you interfere the more likely you will spot those birds which are going to fail.

Can I pick your brains on the loft and lighting for it

what type of lights do you use or which is best to use ?

what time do your light go on and off now and during the winter as its dark by 6.30pm and not light until 7.30am

also clocks will be going back soon so do your light times change ...

Thank you gents.
Just something you mentioned King got me thinking can you use the moult as indication for any sort of form thro out the season....


Yes Dave birds in top form will have small round droppings and down feathers on them. Although they can be also in form without dropping down ...

Can I pick your brains on the loft and lighting for it

what type of lights do you use or which is best to use ?

what time do your light go on and off now and during the winter as its dark by 6.30pm and not light until 7.30am

also clocks will be going back soon so do your light times change ...

With out meaning to cause any undue alarm...

I have reason to change my mind about the risks of Ai and ETS systems.
Exactly Matt, that's why I started the topic off it's been going on with improbable velocity & altering the results sheets.


AI has nothing to do with it. YOU CAN'T print or ...

So Ive said on here that I have never really paid much attention to the moult. But this year I have realised how significant it is in affecting the timing of things.
I have always thought that the general procedure was for a bird to moult all its body feathers before its wing feathers and head n ...

Yes your right there mate, people talk about paper pigeons and then buy them and they are no better than what you have in your loft, for some or most people they can't keep going out and paying top money for paper pigeons to get no or very little results.
So my question is where do you start to ...

Andy wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2026 5:42 pm The opposite here Murray. It’s mid October and still in tee shirts. It was 20c today. Sunny and clear. Birds are still out flying this evening at 15.41. Sunsets in another half an hour.

Only 14c here in York Andy and had a chill in the wind. I had more than a t-shirt on here.

On Amazon for £37.94

NO. If the bird moults out fine, it will be ok.


Thanks King - apart from the breeding potential, will it always be stunted or will it mature back to normal
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Well ALL young birds do increase slightly in size after their first moult. But a small bird ain't going to become a medium if you ...